Earlier quoted context omitted.
"How does that make Elon Musk a con artist?" Because since 2014 he has made wildly unrealistic claims that he is smart enough to know were BS. December 2015: “We’re going to end up with complete autonomy, and I think we will have complete autonomy in approximately two years.” January 2016 In ~2 years, summon should work anywhere connected by land & not blocked by borders, eg you're in LA and the car is in NY June 201…
Do you have any citations? I would like to read them.
US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
531–540 of 1001 posts
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#532The interesting question is how good self-driving has to be before people tolerate it. It's clear that having half the casualty rate per distance traveled of the median human driver isn't acceptable. How about a quarter? Or a tenth? Accidents caused by human drivers are one of the largest causes of injury and death, but they're not newsworthy the way an accident involving automated driving is. It's all too easy to se…
> Accidents caused by human drivers are one of the largest causes of injury and death
In some parts of the world. Perhaps some countries should look deeper into why and why self-driving cars might not be the No. 1 answer to reduce traffic accidents.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a dangerous line and I don't think it's correct. Software I write shouldn't be relied on in critical situations. If someone makes that decision then it's on them not on me. The line should be where a person tells others that they can rely on the software with their lives - as in the integrator for the end product. Even if I was working on the software for self driving, the same thing would apply - if I wrote s…
To be fair maybe the software you write shouldn’t be relied on in critical situations but in this case the only place this software could be used in are critical situations
Ultimately - yes. But as I mentioned, the fact it's sold as ready for critical situations doesn't mean the developers thought/said it's ready.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
That sucks that you had that negative experience. I’ve driven thousands of miles in FSD and love it. Could not imagine going back. I rarely need to intervene and when I do it’s not because the car did something dangerous. There are just times I’d rather take over due to cyclists, road construction, etc.
These "works for me!" comments are exhausting. Nobody believes you "rarely intervene", otherwise Tesla themselves would be promoting the heck out of the technology. Bring on the videos of you in the passenger seat on FSD for any amount of time.
I can see it. How FSD performs depends on the environment. In some places it's great, in others I take over relatively frequently, although it's usually because it's being annoying, not because it poses any risk.
Being in the passenger seat is still off limits for obvious reasons.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#535"Move fast and kill people" Look, I don't know who needs to hear this, but just stop supporting this asshole's companies. You don't need internet when you're camping, you don't need a robot to do your laundry, you don't need twitter, you can find more profitable and reliable places to invest.
Nobody needs to hear your nonsense rants. A 50k model 3 makes almost all offerings up to 80k (including electrics) from legacy automakers look like garbage.
Found the guy who bought $TSLA at its ATH
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Lots of people are asking how good the self driving has to be before we tolerate it. There’s a simple answer to this. As soon as it’s good enough for Tesla to accept liability for accidents. Until then if Tesla doesn’t trust it, why should I?
Whats the current total liability cost for all Tesla drivers? The average for all USA cars seems to be around $2000/year, so even if FSD was half as dangerous Tesla would still be paying $1000/year equivalent (not sure how big insurance margins are, assuming nominal) per car. Now, if legally the driver could avoid paying insurance for the few times they want/need to drive themselves (e.g. snow? Dunno what FSD support…
Also I wouldn’t be surprised if any potential wrongful death lawsuits could cost Tesla several magnitudes more than the current average.
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whats the current total liability cost for all Tesla drivers? The average for all USA cars seems to be around $2000/year, so even if FSD was half as dangerous Tesla would still be paying $1000/year equivalent (not sure how big insurance margins are, assuming nominal) per car. Now, if legally the driver could avoid paying insurance for the few times they want/need to drive themselves (e.g. snow? Dunno what FSD support…
Liability alone isn’t nearly that high. Car insurance payments include people stealing your car, uninsured motorists, rental cars, and other issues not the drivers fault. Further insurance payments also include profits for the insurance company, advertising, billing, and other overhead from running a business. Also, if Tesla was taking on these risks you’d expect your insurance costs to drop.
How much would every death or severe injury caused by FSD cost Tesla? We probably won’t know anytime soon but since unlike anyone else they can afford to pay out virtually unlimited amounts and courts will presumably take that into account
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#538Lots of people are asking how good the self driving has to be before we tolerate it. I got a one month free trial of FSD and turned it off after two weeks. Quite simply: it's dangerous. - It failed with a cryptic system error while driving - It started making a left turn far too early that would have scraped the left side of the car on a sign. I had to manually intervene. - In my opinion, the default setting accelera…
Tesla jumped the gun on the FSD free trial earlier this year. It was nowhere near good enough at the time. Most people who tried it for the first time probably share your opinion. That said, there is a night and day difference between FSD 12.3 that you experienced earlier this year and the latest version 12.6. It will still make mistakes from time to time but the improvement is massive and obvious. More importantly,…
> the rate of improvement in the past two months has been much faster than before.
I suspect the free trials let tesla collect orders of magnitude more data on events requiring human intervention. If each one is a learning event, it could exponentially improve things.
I tried it on a loaner car and thought it was pretty good.
One bit of feedback I would give tesla - when you get some sort of FSD message on the center screen, make the text BIG and either make it linger more, or let you recall it.
For example, it took me a couple tries to read the message that gave instructions on how to give tesla feedback on why you intervened.
EDIT: look at this graph
https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/10/Scree...
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
Liability alone isn’t nearly that high. Car insurance payments include people stealing your car, uninsured motorists, rental cars, and other issues not the drivers fault. Further insurance payments also include profits for the insurance company, advertising, billing, and other overhead from running a business. Also, if Tesla was taking on these risks you’d expect your insurance costs to drop.
Yeah any automaker doing this would just negotiate a flat rate per car in the US and the insurer would average the danger to make a rate. This would be much cheaper than the average individual’s cost for liability on their insurance.
What if someone gets killed because of some clear bug/error and the jury decides to award 100s of millions just for that single ? I’m not sure it’s trivial to insurance companies to account for that sort of risk
Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good. If you write software that people rely on with their lives, and it fails, you should be held liable for that criminally.
Drug companies and the FDA (circa 1906) play a very dangerous and delicate dance all the time releasing new drugs to the public. But for over a century now we've managed to figure it out without holding pharma companies criminally liable for every death. > If you write software that people rely on with their lives, and it fails, you should be held liable for that criminally. Easy to type those words on the internet t…
> criminally liable for every death.
The fact that people generally consume drugs voluntarily and make that decision after being informed about most of the known risks probably mitigates that to some extent. Being killed by someone else’s FSD car seems to be very different