This is very clearly the reason why I trust Telegram 100 times more than Signal. Signal conveniently appeared when Telegram became popular. Now that they couldn't stop Telegram they're actively trying to take it down or gain control over it.
Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
531–540 of 1001 posts
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.
I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…
While I agree that private communication should be a human right I also do think that your analogy is wrong.
"roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly."
All of those can be monitored by the government, even your letters could be.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#533the EU is becoming a parody >we've got to save democracy by restricting free speech and enforcing laws and regulations created by unelected officials
[flagged]
I like a lot of things the EU is doing, but this spread of surveillance is something I'll always protest against. That's my biggest gripe with the EU, and I hate the Big-Brother-like thinking that gives us the GDPR and also mass surveillance.
It's clear the EU's mindset is "nobody can compromise your privacy except me, but it's OK, I'm benevolent", and I'm not a fan of that exceptions.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly, this isn't the case. I keep bringing it up since people forget about it: in 2006 the EU adopted the Data Retention Directive that forced all ISPs to save the browsing history of everyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive It was eventually declared invalid by the European court of human rights, but it was still in effect for many years. Countries that did not implement this (eg Romania bec…
Is that directive the reason why website operators do not want to implement ECH (Encrypted Client Hello) which allows to encrypt server name in TLS connection? I tried googling this, but Cloudflare blog only says that they disabled ECH without disclosing the reasons: [1] [1] https://community.cloudflare.com/t/early-hints-and-encrypted...
They never re-enabled it?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does this mean that according to EU, or France, E2E-encrypted platforms need to "cooperate" (provide backdoors)? Or does it refer to public channels only?
It means the post office is next, followed by the phone company.
If you think the governments of the world do not have the metadata of every single phone call and at the very least an outside picture of every letter being sent by non-companies, then I have a boat te sell you.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well.... it might (unlikely, but...) have implications for the Russian military forces in Ukraine, who are widely using it for communications (even for things like targeting artillery with drone spotters). Interestingly (and understandably I guess, given the original nationality of the current CEO), the Ukrainian military are mostly using Signal, and the Russian military almost exclusively use Telegram.
Last I checked, Durov had some of his biggest companies confiscated by the Russian government, and he basically fled Russia, so it's hard to believe he would be cooperating with them. (But not impossible I guess, they might have scared him into cooperating ??) Also, doesn't the Ukrainian military also use Telegram quite a lot ? (And what about the Israelo-Japanese Viber, also very popular in Ukraine?)
A lot of the mil bloggers / military analysis on both sides use Telegram, but the actual Ukrainian troops are mostly using Signal.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.
I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…
I think private communications are a human right as well. But I don’t think every conceivable way of communicating must be private. You can always go outside and talk privately with your neighbour.
To use your analogy: shouldn’t everyone look away when you drive by so that you can have private road usage?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#538It's all just speculation here. Maybe the French gov knows some stuff we don't. I always found that guy's story of living 'in exile' from Russia a bit suspect. And now Russian government officials are calling for his release. Need more information to make any kind of judgement. What I'm pretty sure of now is that this probably has nothing to do with encryption.
Telegram encryption is off by default and is a joke compared to Signal and others. This has nothing to do with encryption. I could list a dozen E2E encrypted things in common use that are all legal and online. It has nothing to do with ordinary sorts of “bad” content either like hate speech or crypto scams or whatever. All of that can be found in abundance in many places, all of which are still online. This is about…
CEO getting arrested does not mean telegram will go down.
Direct involvement with scams? You got to be kidding me. This guy is worth 15 billion USD, he does need to do anything.
It's about lack of cooperation in censoring content.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
I like a lot of things the EU is doing, but this spread of surveillance is something I'll always protest against. That's my biggest gripe with the EU, and I hate the Big-Brother-like thinking that gives us the GDPR and also mass surveillance. It's clear the EU's mindset is "nobody can compromise your privacy except me, but it's OK, I'm benevolent", and I'm not a fan of that exceptions.
That is totally fair. They only way people can keep all these protections and rights is to continually fight for them.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#540Not clear right now if France thinks he was actively complicit with the four horsemen listed, or if just the act of running Telegram makes him complicit in their eyes, or something in the middle, e.g. they asked for help and Telegram turned them down. This will be an interesting case to watch -- I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort -- but generally my un…
[deleted]