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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#531

Post by silisili »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #522
silisili wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a strange feeling that some of those are just people too embarassed to say they met online Probably right. I don't really get the stigma, but I've known a few people personally who told the same lie and found later it was online. One in particular had a huge elaborate story about their bar meeting. His wife told me later one day he basically selected her from a website. So like most questions, probably worth…

Selected... What? Not matched? You are making it seem like she just listed herself for selection on a website and went with it?

She was from a foreign country. I'm guessing whatever the modern day equivalent of a mail order bride? I didn't ask for specifics past that.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#532

Post by paulryanrogers »

svieira wrote: post #407
nineplay wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unavoidable in Christianity. Even if one's immediate religious society doesn't believe in hell, it is trivially easy to find other societies which do, and other societies that believe that everyone is damned except for people who've accepted the 'right' concept in the 'right' way. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I realized I could become an Atheist and mostly put the matter out of my mind. Quick…

Speaking as a Christian I think Hell is often looked at the wrong way. It's easy to fall into, yes, but not because "you're just doing it wrong" but because "you want to". I can't speak for other denominations than Catholic, but no one goes to Hell because they just-didn't-know. They go to Hell because they want to serve someone other than God. The reason to be afraid isn't "here's someone who's just waiting for you…

Ah yes, I "wanted to" think of hell as a lake of eternal fire that most of humanity, likely myself included, would be thrown into and gawked at by the virtuous. Certainly had nothing to do with what I was indoctrinated with from birth. You realize you literally are telling us we are "just doing it wrong"? Worse, that we're doing it wrong because we want to?!

Hell is a fantasy that causes more mental illness than any marginal reduction in antisocial behavior.

How many lifetimes were wasted fearing/sacrificing, arguing, killing, and dying over meaningless and unprovable silliness like heaven and hell? How many children scarred by things they read for themselves after years of being told it's--some measure of--the highest truth?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#534

Post by Aerbil313 »

devonkim wrote: post #449
goethes_kind wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my 30s but I'm feeling this so hard. Growing up we used to have these kid/youth centres that were run by local Catholic organizations. We used to hang out there after school. Ostensibly the point was that there'd be 30 minutes of catechism doctrine, but we didn't really care about that. To us it was just a the place where everyone would be. I miss that so much. A place where you can just go and meet people you…

I think more broadly you’re talking about the concept of “third places” and this has been suggested as another reason for decline of community. However, my argument is that the Internet replaced the “third place” for most people given it’s where people are spending time in terms of attention and resources rather than necessarily physical presence.

And how is that compliant with the human biology?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#535

Post by tbrownaw »

lovethevoid wrote: post #450
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the following: 1. The chief unit and source of community is the family. The married couple, the family, have been deteriorating for some time. It shouldn't be surprising that the consequences would spread outward. Societies are a manner of extended family organized according to the principle of subsidiary. 2. American culture especially is hyperindividualistic. It conceives of people not as persons, but as i…

> The chief unit and source of community is the family. This view stems from Judeo-Christian beliefs. The very invention of marriage was a separation of community, where men wanted ownership of women and their children. I also wonder if you're fully aware of how much you've attempted to repackage the original sin in your comment.

I think this would imply that non-Western societies (or even Western ones before the spread of Christianity) aren't organized out of families? Also, what is a "shotgun wedding" in this worldview?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#536

Post by Aerbil313 »

the_gipsy wrote: post #460
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the following: 1. The chief unit and source of community is the family. The married couple, the family, have been deteriorating for some time. It shouldn't be surprising that the consequences would spread outward. Societies are a manner of extended family organized according to the principle of subsidiary. 2. American culture especially is hyperindividualistic. It conceives of people not as persons, but as i…

You talk and sermon awfully much against individualism, shouldn't you quit being online and do some family or society work? Don't tell me you're done already, that would be hypocritical.

Why do you seem to consider surfing HN a vice or a sin?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#537

Post by Aerbil313 »

lovethevoid wrote: post #450
lo_zamoyski wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider the following: 1. The chief unit and source of community is the family. The married couple, the family, have been deteriorating for some time. It shouldn't be surprising that the consequences would spread outward. Societies are a manner of extended family organized according to the principle of subsidiary. 2. American culture especially is hyperindividualistic. It conceives of people not as persons, but as i…

> The chief unit and source of community is the family. This view stems from Judeo-Christian beliefs. The very invention of marriage was a separation of community, where men wanted ownership of women and their children. I also wonder if you're fully aware of how much you've attempted to repackage the original sin in your comment.

Why do you think a recognization of the very human tendency to do stuff which harms either you or the society a remark for the unintuitive Christian concept of original sin?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#538

Post by Dalewyn »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #527
Dalewyn wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A lot more likely that financial and social pressures are squeezing what were previously considered cultural imperatives. We are living the most affluent lives ever known to mankind, even so-called low income people. We all have more money than we know what to do with, let alone more money than our forefathers. Rather, I think the drop in marriage (and by extension divorce) has to do with increasing individualism an…

> I frankly find marriage to be nothing short of a human rights violation anyway. Just curious, but how could marriage be a rights violation?

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights.

Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be wife to compromise my unalienable right to liberty? This is absolutely irreconcilable and thus I consider marriage to be a violation of human rights.

If we also were to have children, I/we would also be imposing my/our will upon them. I/we would be violating our childrens' unalienable right to liberty and potentially pursuit of happiness. I cannot accept that.

I am also of the position that if I were to get a divorce for any reason, I must question why I got married in the first place. Marriage is not a thing that can nor should be taken lightly; divorce is an out, but I consider the entire premise of marriage is that it is a permanent thing until death do us part.

As such, if we end up in an unhappy marriage (eg: constant bickering over the kitchen or finances) then this is also a violation of our respective unalienable rights to pursuit of happiness and we both wasted significant amounts of our limited time that each of us have in this world.

Therefore, along with other personal convictions, I find no appeal in marriage and have no intentions of ever pursuing it or finding myself in such an arrangement of my free will.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#539

Post by bustling-noose »

ip26 wrote: post #464
bustling-noose wrote: post #62

About 9 years ago I traveled to the US from India for education. Smartphones were still not very common in India cause data was not as cheap as it is today. When I was in the bus commuting everyone’s head was buried in their phones. I thought to myself this is such a sad thing. Look outside talk to each other but the every single person had an iPhone and was doing something on the phone. Fast forward to 2024 and ever…

I'm not saying smartphones are never a problem. However, look at old photos of the bus or subway in the USA or UK from decades ago. Passengers were not having social hour - they were minding their own business, reading a newspaper, listening to music, staring out the window... I'm more interested in the question of whether technology tethers us home more strongly, instead of venturing outside of our homes.

>they were minding their own business, reading a newspaper, listening to music, staring out the window

Much better cognitively than endlessly scrolling Instagram reels YouTube shorts that are algorithms trying to keep you hooked. Sometimes I’ve seen people just open random apps and close and do nothing. It’s like a habit they are unable to let go.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#540

Post by DavidPiper »

vinnski wrote: post #523
pradn wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The words "friend" (everyone knows how shallow a "Facebook friend" is), "share" ("ride-sharing" instead of calling a taxi), and "community" (is the entire customer base of Facebook really a community?) have been shorn of their sociable, human meanings. It's as if a corporation were mining the good will humans have accreted to those words over millenia. Sometimes there are communities in these spaces - NUMTOTs or smal…

Seems like almost every community nowadays has to have their own Discord server or private Facebook group. Often a deal-breaker for the more privacy-conscious people, unfortunately

My initial reaction to your comment was that privacy-consciousness has always been a potential deal-breaker for social engagement - which I think is true, building connection is an inherently vulnerable activity - but it's interesting how the word "privacy" means something very different on- and off-line.

We haven't ever lived in a world where not being "privacy-conscious" in a social setting could mean any of the following if that privacy is compromised by a corporation:

- Someone constructed a whole fake online presence using my data

- Someone used generative AI to make fake photos and videos of me doing things

- Someone has access to my bank accounts and all of my personal communications

- ...

We used to think of privacy as something that exists between people. Now we think of it as something that is mediated by corporations.

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