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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#531

Post by zappb »

wordsinaline wrote: post #69
vundercind wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

I would still hold a grudge. I hold historical grudges going back centuries.

Still mad about Amalek.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#532

Post by cen4 »

bko wrote: post #381
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

> It's a relevant question. You are blaming it on the particular group of migrants involved in the case of Europe right now. But historically Europe has ghettoized other groups. My understanding is that pre-WW2 Europe you had community groups that dealt with their people. So in a Jewish neighborhood, you had powerful Rabbis or other religious leaders that dole out law. These unofficial community leaders were given a…

Just worth pointing out, exactly 100 years ago, they didn't think Jews could integrate into the America - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#533

Post by throwaway2037 »

basisword wrote: post #53

It's interesting reading the opinions in the comments on this thread. As a non-US person, I don't have a strong opinion on Cuba. I'd like to visit someday but don't know much about it other than the headlines. Reading the comments here it sounds like a pariah state on the level of North Korea. With 1m people leaving in a year, it clearly has its issues - but lots of the comments here are a good example of how your co…

I have not visited Cuba, but from everything that see and read, it is far more free than North Korea.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#534

Post by mongol »

aegis4244 wrote: post #255
pton_xd wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Republican anti-immigrant platform because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. Explain how unskilled illegal immigrants contribute to our success. I'm open minded but I've yet to hear anything convincing. No one is opposed to the legal immigration of skilled workers.

Economists say every immigrant is a net economic positive to the nation. They eat,buy food clothing, cars. Every immigrant child is a net negative to the state,at least until they turn 18. But it isn't even. Net neg per kid of maybe 800 a year, positive of each adult of 1200-1600 are the numbers I've heard on freakonomics podcast. Their guests proposed solution was to have the feds pay the states per an immigrant chi…

> Economists say every immigrant is a net economic positive to the nation.

This can only be true if they sustain themselves on their own work. An immigrant that does not work and only lives on subsidies can hardly be called a net positive.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#535

Post by [deleted] »

sangnoir wrote: post #395
hnpolicestate wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see it. Statistically or otherwise. Even if it were. It's a protected unalienable right. Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. In my opinion of course.

> Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. Tangentially - I find it fascinating how the originalists on the supreme court get fuzzy on what a "well regulated militia" meant at the time the amendment was written.

[deleted]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#536

Post by nozzlegear »

refurb wrote: post #451
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

As someone who isn't American, the dialogue around immigration in the US seems so odd. I've lived in six different countries (including the US) and in every other country there is no discussion around illegal immigrants - they are deported. It's not even a political issue. Having secure borders is a norm. Then I get to the US and there is this weird political debate around it. For someone reason it's "bad" to refer t…

The words “give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free” are engraved on the Statue of Liberty. We were all taught about immigrants trying to escape poverty, war and hardship by coming to America and starting a new life for themselves and their families. So it’s got a bit of a romanticism to it, and it’s hard to blame anyone for doing whatever it takes to get their families into the country like we saw the immigrants in our history books do.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#537

Post by rpmisms »

timschmidt wrote: post #506
rpmisms wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support immigration too, as long as it's people we vet. Smart people want to live here, and will jump through hoops to do so. We should make the hoops easier for them, and actually deport people who spit in their faces by waltzing over the border and staying. It's not fair to the hard-working honest people who played by the rules. Also, you should be concerned about the crime. Have you seen what the cartel does in…

> Have you seen what the cartel does in Mexico? The ones the DEA has partnered with[0], arms[1], and enables through backward drug policy[2]? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal 2: https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-...

What, you assume I think the government is good? The cartel is worse by a fair margin, but we do not have a virtuous government. The difference is that government has a modicum of public responsibility and can't/isn't likely to simply murder most* of us for no good reason.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#538

Post by noduerme »

TMWNN wrote: post #526
noduerme wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not unsympathetic to the idea that mainstream Islam, since then 1970s, has morphed into something closer to extreme ultraorthodox Judaism or an extreme branch of Christianity. And this is certainly an obstacle to integration. But it is not irreversible, and I think in particular rejection by a foreign host culture serves to reinforce that extremism. North Korean defectors have a lot of trouble assimilating in Sou…

>The goal of a host society should be to study where the differences present themselves acutely and how to alleviate the pain and rejection of individual emigrants without accepting extremism or compromising the values of the culture into which they have immigrated. Doesn't that presuppose the conclusion? That such emigrants should be received regardless of how fundamentally different their hard drives' formatting is…

I like this coding analogy. Would they willingly accept 20 million people with bizarre and incompatible software? Yes but barely because it's in the same language? China has even less desire for the NK regime to fall, as the formatting and language would disrupt the balance in Manchuria.

But I'm not talking about what they want (whatever South Korea says they want about reunification). I mean what preparations are they making for absorbing that mass of people in the event that it happens... in particular, turning them from a faceless mass into prosperous and contributing individual members of a modern westernized society. South Korea has put a lot of study into that question, as did West Germany. So why can't France? They did control a good portion of the Muslim world for a couple of centuries, after all. What's the difference between the potential collapse of Algeria and the collapse of NK, or at least what is the plan for it?

No one wanted civil wars in Syria and Libya that would send millions of refugees to Europe, but there has been no systematic approach to integrating them and, let's say, updating their software. The prevailing view seems to be that this is temporary rather than just a fraction of what is to come. Anyone looking at the demographics can see that if Europe fails to inculcate its Enlightenment values into its immigrant population within a generation, those values will cease to exist. So I mean what is the real plan?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#539

Post by rapsey »

noduerme wrote: post #486
gwervc wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may throw a Godwin point as introduction, it doesn't change the fact that some groups indeed doesn't integrate well into France. And this is despite billions of welfare money given for housing, free education, free access to health, etc. You mentioned Gypsies, well I read scholarly work stating that they were warmly welcomed 4 centuries ago in the towns of my region, until people discovered a tendency of their pu…

Everywhere in Europe that welcomed Jews, their neighbors attacked them whenever the Plague came around, blaming them for poisoning wells. To be blunt, if that hadn't happened, the Jews would have probably disappeared into the general European population by the 15th Century. So you are supporting the point that village rumors led to a situation of permanent exclusion for Gypsies.

Jews were money lenders, which inherently instills a level of hatred.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#540

Post by gdwatson »

PentiumBug wrote: post #290

As a Cuban that is currently living in Cuba, I think it might be useful to voice my opinions, as I have read some comments here which I consider less than accurate in some respects. To avoid typing too much, I'll summarize with... bullet points? * The published figure of 10 million people is already outdated. First, they are official figures, which means that they are not telling the truth. Second, six months have el…

> Is Cuba a dictatorship? No.

Would you clarify what you mean by this? Does the first secretary of the Communist party no longer have de facto dictatorial power?

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