Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 572 posts

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#531

Post by adammarples »

Analemma_ wrote: post #68
herf wrote: post #58

It's interesting to compare this to the Chrome/Safari/Edge browsing history, which is stored in an unencrypted SQLite database, and tracks what you do for the last 90 days. It's just a bit less visual, Incognito/Private modes work, and some users clear it more often. But a whole lot of the surveillance attacks people imagine about Recall apply just the same to the browser. I think it's the "little brother" casual att…

Yeah, I think this entire debate is uninformed hysteria and manufactured outrage. "If an attacker has administrator access, they can see everything you have done on your computer!". OK? That has literally always been the case? "Attacker is root" is game over and always has been. The original writeup from DoublePulsar tried to justify that Recall is somehow different from other such scenarios, but I found it totally u…

Someone with root access can't see anything that has been deleted, or the contents of secure web pages I've visited, like my banks, doctor, or email. Very different.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#532

Post by FMecha »

salt-thrower wrote: post #325
dylan604 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you have the number of employees they do and not have a single non-sychophant employee?

Non-sycophant employees are shut down and ignored once the whole corporate culture has bought in to the hype du jour. If you are the sole dissenter, it can even make you look like a “bad” employee for not recognizing the “opportunity” that the new hyped thing will supposedly bring.

Why don't tech unions (if there's any) strike against these types of features, then?

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#533

Post by therein »

godelski wrote: post #349
infinitezest wrote: post #286

I have a really hard time understanding the use case for something like this. Stuff that I want to remember I just write down or reference something like my browser history or recently opened files. It's very low tech for sure but it works, is waaay more energy efficient, way easier to understand and audit, and doesnt have the same security concerns. I get that using "AI" has a Wow Factor that existing systems have b…

I definitely get the use case. It's naive to ignore that there is utility. But just because something has utility doesn't mean it comes at high costs. I mean it's a super powerful keylogger that is searchable without technical knowledge. Not to mention that it'll probably fail to LLM type of attacks, which even many non technical people are able to figure out. But then again, I don't understand why people so passiona…

Yeah it can be very useful. The only way I'd trust it is if it was a box that MITM the HDMI/DP cable and has clearly no connectivity to the outside world. It can do OCR locally, store things locally, I don't even want it queryable from a computer. Maybe a standalone terminal.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#534

Post by therein »

fingerlocks wrote: post #172
dylan604 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you have the number of employees they do and not have a single non-sychophant employee?

Company-wide internal push to shoehorn AI into every product and service. All recognition and rewards are given to the sychophants, no matter how ludicrous their proposals. Even Principal and Senior developers are dragged into meetings with senior leadership to provide suggestions on how AI can be used in their microcosm. Whether it should be used is completely out of the question. It’s a complete circus right now. P…

Yeah, it is weird.

About a year ago my mom had said "you worked at these powerful international companies, I'd expect you to have confidence in the people working in their ranks to protect the things that you deem valuable", my response was "unfortunately that's exactly the reason why I have no hope that anyone will stand up".

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#535

Post by deanishe »

Timber-6539 wrote: post #500
disqard wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take a shot (not at MS, so I have no inside info). GenAI is hotter than anything else right now. As Satya publicly stated, "we made them dance" -- which shows how high-priority it is to maximize "AI innovation" at MS. If you disagree, think about how badly "Tay" blew up in MS's face and yet they still went ahead and bundled OpenAI LLM tech into all of Office365, just so they could have bragging rights about beat…

You are absolutely right. This AI race has been sort of funny to watch among the big tech incumbents. Google kept on launching faked demos and hurriedly released an openly race biased image generator all in a bid to catch up with OpenAI. Meanwhile Apple has been sort of lethargic. Recently annouced a deal with OpenAI to add GPT to their devices. They seem happy to continue playing catch up in this regard. I think Met…

> They seem happy to continue playing catch up in this regard.

Catch up with what? Does anyone else have an AI product actually worth having?

Is it somehow bad that Apple hasn't also released an AI that doesn't do what it's supposed do half of the time?

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#536

Post by godelski »

therein wrote: post #533
godelski wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely get the use case. It's naive to ignore that there is utility. But just because something has utility doesn't mean it comes at high costs. I mean it's a super powerful keylogger that is searchable without technical knowledge. Not to mention that it'll probably fail to LLM type of attacks, which even many non technical people are able to figure out. But then again, I don't understand why people so passiona…

Yeah it can be very useful. The only way I'd trust it is if it was a box that MITM the HDMI/DP cable and has clearly no connectivity to the outside world. It can do OCR locally, store things locally, I don't even want it queryable from a computer. Maybe a standalone terminal.

Even then I wouldn't. Just the same way I wouldn't trust a keylogger on my system no matter what. This is more invasive than a keylogger.

And per my other comment [0], I think it just creates a big attack surface and makes extracting data and passwords from machines much easier. And as suggested by another user, I suspect this will be used to enforce Chat Control for those in Europe.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40612851

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#537

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

ryukoposting wrote: post #512
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious about your Ubuntu setup. Any particular technical reason? Any especially thorny bits? Do you see improved performance or fewer background processes? I am well past the point of enduring this kind of OS pain, and will use the path well trodden by others. I have always assumed that distros layer on so many extensions, customizations, etc that Gnome or KDE would be alien if naively installed.

> Any particular technical reason? Fully de-GNOME'ing desktop Ubuntu is Sisyphean. It's easier to build up Ubuntu Server from a plain terminal. > Any especially thorny bits? Nvidia drivers. Just check that all apt packages with the word "nvidia" in them have the same version number. Otherwise Xorg and/or torch will go boom. > Gnome or KDE I'm using neither! I have no login manager. I type my username and password int…

Wild. Well glad it works for you, but way too many headaches for when things go awry.

I note that my Ubuntu derived system idles at multiple gigs of ram

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#538

Post by adamomada »

7bit wrote: post #497
anticensor wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the standard one ?

Well obviously the one Chrome decided to use ... /s

It’s also in Safari and I’m guessing Edge as well. It’s not a big deal, I just get surprised by Firefox the first time I try to open a private window

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#539

Post by pollyturples »

kjellsbells wrote: post #467

Heres something I just don't get. Microsoft just got their ass handed to them by the US Government because os (lapses in) security. Extremely more than coincidentally, Satya Nadella told the entire Microsoft org that if anyone had to choose between features and security, to choose security. I'm hearing from Microsoft people that all product roadmaps are deferred for a few months while security features are addressed.…

the reason they did this is because if they succeed in sneaking this out, MS would have been 'drinking the milkshake' of google, adobe, facebook and everyone else trying to do the same thing at an app level. it would be the holy grail of training data -- they could replace or simulate the entire user at an inter-app level for A/B testing anything they want, or worse. the idea of having full user behavior history of the majority of the worlds computer users is just too tempting not to try for them and im sure theyll try again despite any backlash.

Re: Microsoft will switch off Recall by default after security backlash

#540

Post by twobitshifter »

callalex wrote: post #408
twobitshifter wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you could use Recall to train a model to do all the interactions that knowledge workers do on their computers using the exact same software, do you think there would be value in that?

I can also imagine that Recall could grow and cook my food for me, but it can’t do that either so I don’t really understand your point.

point is that microsoft may have a secondary objective further down the road that recall can be a stepping stone towards
Post reply on HN