Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software • Hacker News Board

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#531

Post by wasteduniverse » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:12 PM UTC

alecst wrote: post #492

Aurornis wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is a shame that he ended up getting violent, because "Industrial Society and Its Future" is one of the most interesting, insightful, and fascinating things I've read. I recommend it to everyone. It's pseudo-profound, but not really insightful at all. It's the kind of writing that seems brilliant to people going through difficult times in life or edgy teenagers who are angry at the world, but to be blunt i…

Honestly, ouch -- I'm not even the person you replied to and I feel attacked somehow, haha! You basically just said, "That guy's not all that smart, and if you think he is, take a hard look in the mirror!" Maybe you can say more about why you think his writing falls short and who you'd recommend to read as a counterpoint?

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#532

Post by esarbe » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:19 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #248

esarbe wrote: post #123

I recommend gardening. It's really satisfying to see stuff grow, to learn how to tend to plants, how they compete and cooperate. It helps me to preserve some sanity.

I tried out hydroponics over the pandemic and it was fantastic! I stuck a pepper plant into a cup of water, made sure the nutrients were right, and watched that thing go off, I was an extremely proud plant dad.

It's just amazing that such a small seed contains all the necessary information an initial machinery to rebuild a complete plant that then builds more seeds.

It blows your mind, if you think about it for a moment.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#533

Post by consf » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#534

Post by consf » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:52 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #349

mbeddedartistry wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a one man software consultant, I just want to point out that you are working with clients, in their systems, on their problems. You provide advice, they make the decisions they deem best for their company. You get to choose the problem spaces and teams, which is a degree of autonomy. But it is not quite so free as “making your own decisions and not answering to anybody.”

If you want to sell your woodwork you would have similar issues.

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#535

Post by consf » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:55 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #327

sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

I like the big companies because I can be paid a hefty six figure salary while working 4 hour days and spending the rest of the hours doing woodworking, gardening, home remodeling, baking, exercising, reading, etc.

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#536

Post by consf » Mon, May 06, 2024, 5:57 PM UTC

usrnm wrote: post #56

sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

What's wrong with doing a boring job for a lot of money and then getting all the fun elsewhere? This actually seems to be the best way to do it to me

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#537

Post by chiggsy » Mon, May 06, 2024, 11:06 PM UTC

> I suddenly became incapable of doing work that I found meaningless.

This attitude will fail you. The meaningless work must be done as carefully and joyfully as the meaningful work. Think of it as building the foundation for serendipity, something very difficult to see from the present moment.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#538

Post by chiggsy » Mon, May 06, 2024, 11:22 PM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #446

ryandrake wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, that linter thread was wild! Sometimes I think we are totally pampered and out of touch! I've cleaned McDonalds bathrooms, worked in a plastics factory where the chemical stench left my nose nonfunctional for weeks, hauled heavy sacks of shingles up onto a roof in 100+F degree summer temperatures. I am utterly grateful and consider it a lucky privilege to now be typing into a computer in a climate controlled off…

I don't mean to pile on but i feel the same when software devs here talk about how becoming a farmer is their salvation from their workplace suffering. As a kid I remember watching my cousin lie on his back with a stick welder underneath a horse trailer in 105F Texas summer heat. No thanks, i'll stick with my coffee, desk, and computer. edit: different strokes for different folks, i don't want to sound too presumptuo…

>For some people what i described is exactly what would bring them joy.

Backbreaking manual labor sucks. The heat. The cold. The shit. The frost. I'll format my fucking code any way you tell me to to avoid farm life. Like I give a shit. A week in and I won't even notice. Ah Christ, the smell of cow pus ...nyaagggggh.

As for woodworking: You will get cut, there is no hope of avoiding it, and no telling how bad it's going to be. The next day, we will see how serious your woodworking gig really is. You gotta be out there, bub. Get it stitched up and keep on cranking out the pieces.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#539

Post by chiggsy » Mon, May 06, 2024, 11:32 PM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #281

jwr wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like modern day slavery, or perhaps more precisely "corvee" labor. You have to toil away on your master's land before doing your own thing. I find it unbearable, but sadly much of the world has to deal with it.

You are mocking the suffering of actual slaves by comparing a modern highly compensated office job to slavery.

And you are mocking his authentic feelings. Slaves are an abstract kind of human for him. Feelings are not comparable, right? Now this poor dude can't even vent a lil in an online forum?

To the OP: When it sucks a lot, try singing. It really, really helps. Throw your head back and let it out of you on the way home.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#540

Post by chiggsy » Mon, May 06, 2024, 11:47 PM UTC

jq-r wrote: post #392

hn_version_0023 wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m going to seize on one phrase: people, including many software engineers themselves, view software engineers as natural resources I’ve said this a million times on this forum.. the little trick whereby people who were once employees became merely _human resources_ has done more to damage work-life in this world than anything else I can think of. Its natural to exploit resources to their fullest. Labeling humans as…

I've lost my cool one time when a very young "manager" asked: "Do we have a backend resource on this call?" It really got my blood boiling and I've said something very similar to: "No we don't have a resource on the call, we have engineers, colleagues, employees, humans and friends on this call. Resources are air, water, memory, cpu and time, please don't call people like that". This followed by silence, and a lot of…

But resources are what you are, hoss. Sounds like the youth of this manager got you messed up. Old head move is to pull him to the side, with the sotto voce, give him a chance to show you he is open to feedback. How can he change now without losing something? This is workplace 101 stuff.