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Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

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Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#531

Post by EMIRELADERO »

inspector-g wrote: post #527
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMA imposes FRAND obligations on gatekeepers and free interoperability requirements ("interoperability" here meaning literally everything from using the installation APIs to install apps from the web to being able to call all OS APIs for free on your app. That's why Apple's "Core Technology Fee" is screwed)

Do you know which sections of the DMA address this? Genuinely asking because I’d like to read from the source here.

Article 6(7):

> The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via the operating system or virtual assistant listed in the designation decision pursuant to Article 3(9) as are available to services or hardware provided by the gatekeeper. Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same operating system, hardware or software features, regardless of whether those features are part of the operating system, as are available to, or used by, that gatekeeper when providing such services.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#532

Post by [deleted] »

abduhl wrote: post #306
modeless wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They believed in good faith that Apple's terms were illegal. There is nothing wrong with breaking an illegal contract. Yes, they lost in court but it wasn't a foregone conclusion. Apple's continuing retaliation is petty and likely to get them in trouble.

But Apple's terms and contract weren't illegal.

[deleted]

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#533

Post by roamerz »

Moldoteck wrote: post #529
roamerz wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple should offer 2 versions of the phone. One version for the consumers who appreciate the extra level of security and another for the rest.

Apple should follow eu laws if it wants to do business withe eu. I know, sounds crazy right?

My suggestion would give consumers an additional choice. Sounds like that is something you are against? I thought that this was what this was all about.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#534

Post by leptons »

fragmede wrote: post #487
amluto wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft simply lacked the network effects MS beat Apple to market by a considerable margin. Windows Mobile substantially predates the iPhone, and it was actually usable. (I had one of their flagship devices.) But MS’s OS concept was incoherent, their UI was laggy, their web browser was unbearably slow despite arguably superior hardware, their form factor was not snazzy. And, unlike Apple, they utterly failed at m…

> Also, Apple out their foot down against carrier nonsense This is the main point, not the "also". Apple's revolution was actually getting it in the hands of real life consumers who paid for cell phone plans. The tech was already there with blackberry, but you had to have business to afford it. Yes, the original iPhone itself was a technical marvel, but it would have been a dead fish if it wasn't for the at& t deal t…

>the original iPhone itself was a technical marvel

Apple didn't invent anything in the original iPhone, except the software. And the first version was really lacking and very buggy.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-jobs-rigged-first-iphon...

Other phones that predated the iPhone release had more capabilities and more software. There was nothing really "marvelous" about the original iPhone, it was many years behind Microsoft.

The HTC Wizard was a "technical marvel" in 2005. Apple was playing catch-up in 2007.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#536

Post by diego_sandoval »

zmmmmm wrote: post #446
jfoster wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficult to imagine what Apple were thinking in the first place. Did they actually think there was a chance the EU would let this slide? Best I can tell, all they've achieved is bringing even greater scrutiny on themselves.

When reason fails to explain people's actions, it gives you a measure of the strength of their ideology on something. In this case, you can see how deeply they believe in the concept of complete authoritarian control of their ecosystem. Enough that logic and practical outcomes barely matter in comparison.

That ideology hasn't stopped them from becoming the most valuable company in the world, so I wouldn't disregard it from the point of view of practical outcomes.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#537

Post by inspector-g »

qeternity wrote: post #384
mopsi wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The interests of their shareholders are literally the interests of their customers. There would be no need hide information from customers if that was true. Their censorship, the fact that Apple desperately wants to hide what they are doing, is very revealing and incriminating.

What information are they hiding/censoring?

Per Apple’s rules, app developers are not allowed to explain the App Store rules and pricing models within their apps, leaving customers in the dark - a form of censorship, to be sure.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#538

Post by mike_d »

vidarh wrote: post #407
mike_d wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He tweeted something. There was some reporting he might have sent a letter asking questions too, the same as you or I could do. If any official action was taken it would have to be documented with a case: https://digital-markets-act-cases.ec.europa.eu/search

It is incredibly naive to suggest that someone with that power "sending a letter asking questions" would be remotely similar to you or I doing the same. The EU has an long tradition of "conversations" and "questions" with an unstated "give the right answer and you can avoid an unpleasant official action". You're right there is no official casework. That is also entirely irrelevant to the issue of whether or not Apple…

> "give the right answer and you can avoid an unpleasant official action"

You are thinking of the mob. Thankfully here in the US official actions are generally done in view of the public.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#539

Post by Antrikshy »

mulmen wrote: post #478
summerlight wrote: post #346

It feels like the initial ban decision was driven by some high level exec (probably Phil Schiller)? If it was happened to be reviewed carefully by lawyers and public relations, they cannot really ban Epic so quickly. There are too many uncertainties and if you do something wrong, that puts government relations at huge risk. Typical employees cannot be held accountable for such decisions, not even low tier VP.

If a VP is "low tier" then isn't calling them a VP at all just title inflation? At what point is a person responsible for the consequences of their actions regardless of intent?

It’s not uncommon for VP to be a lower level exec title at massive companies like Apple.

They’re not low tier by any stretch compared to most employees. They’re still high level leaders.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#540

Post by belzsch »

mike_d wrote: post #325
nielsbot wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article > “Following conversations with Epic, they have committed to follow the rules, including our DMA policies. As a result, Epic Sweden AB has been permitted to re-sign the developer agreement and accepted into the Apple Developer Program.”

This needs to be higher up. Apple didn't budge, or cave, and regulators did not get involved. Epic could have avoided all this by just responding to Apple and signing the EU Addendum affirming they would stick to the laws. Instead they wanted to get into the news cycle. This is the policy they have to agree to: https://developer.apple.com/contact/request/download/alterna...

That Addendum has caused considerable consternation among game developers and — to my knowledge — few are prepared to sign it.

The main points of contention are: - the technology fee (the cost of advertising has already cut badly into their margins in the wake of identifier reform); - the clause making the Addendum also binding on any corporate parents and subsidiaries — the game industry is pretty consolidated and this limits the options for independent game studios which are also subsidiaries;

The fee is particularly nasty for hypercasual games, where a very realistic scenario has you paying for millions of installs, only to find your monetization lacking and you paying additional fees to the platform, of all things.

There are very real concerns with the Addendum and making signing only about Epic’s bona fides is reductive and wrong.

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