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Is my plane a 737 MAX?

ismyplanea737max.com

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Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#531

Post by autoexec »

sorokod wrote: post #420
kube-system wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but this website isn't for regulators to assign accountability. This website is for people to choose what plane they fly on. Choosing to not to fly on a MAX 8 because a MAX 9 has a part that is failing, is jumping to conclusions. If someone wants to jump that far, maybe they should avoid the Airbus A220 because it has wings made by Spirit AeroSystems. There's a lot of finger pointing going on when nobody knows…

I'll assume you are arguing in good faith so... People are angry, concerned and not willing to wait for NTSB to complete their investigations and see what if anything the FAA will do with the conclusions. People are applying a heuristic and for many the outcome (correct in my opinion) is that Boeing should not be trusted.

> People are applying a heuristic and for many the outcome (correct in my opinion) is that Boeing should not be trusted.

That's how I see it. Boeing has already demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice safety and even human lives in exchange for greater profits and stock price increases. They then showed a willingness to lie and try to cover up their actions after it came to light that they caused the deaths of hundreds of passengers. They've also shown that they'll fight to avoid taking responsibility for the lives they took (https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-737-max-crash-victims...)

Why should anyone trust them now?

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#532

Post by not-my-account »

stouset wrote: post #357
not-my-account wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. Knowing that there is some systemic failure within Boeing must change your priors, no? What's wrong with pointing that out and being concerned?

> But, we're seeing fatal issues with one specific company over and over again. We aren't . There were fatal issues with one system (MCAS) on one line of planes. This was addressed, and since then there have been zero fatalities (or injuries) caused by design and/or engineering issues by this manufacturer. Their safety record is not substantially different from that of Airbus (who have their own design issues, IMO, s…

two planes had to fail due to MCAS before it failed. Now, we've seen a blowout, which never happens, from planes that were also recently designed and produced by Boeing. That's a pattern of poor performance which is ocuring recently. It used to be "if it's not Boeing, I'm not going", which they achieved by being very good at what they do.

Comparing Boeing's performance to other the performance of other industries is also apples to oranges, no? Why not compare Boeing to Airbus? I don't understand what you mean by that argument.

So, what design failures has Airbus suffered as of late? And what's your explanation for the specific hate on Boeing, if it's comparable to airbus?

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#533

Post by JumpCrisscross »

93po wrote: post #498
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cross-reference that with OpenSecrets to see if it's even worth pursuing I'm sympathetic to civic disengagement from nihilism, apathy, laziness or even ignorance. What I don't understand is proselytising it. > in office, they're probably taking bribes from Boeing This is bunk, even if we forget that campaign donations aren't bribes.

What do you call giving government officials lots of money to take anticompetitive actions that personally benefit you that they would otherwise never do and also have a clear conflict of interest with the purpose of their elected position?

> giving government officials lots of money to take anticompetitive actions that personally benefit you

Give a specific case. Because almost all of them, with Boeing, involve on one hand a $5k donation, and on the other hand, a factory in the district. Guess which one gets you an urgent meeting with the Congressman.

Tech, in particular, has this cartoonish totem of how politics works. This usually ends hilariously. But in this case, it’s being used to justify inaction, which is conveniently self fulfilling.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#534

Post by Fischgericht »

Fischgericht wrote: post #410

I find it puzzling that airlines are still ordering this plane. It's not just us, the customers, who should "vote with their feet", but the airlines, too. I would not buy from a vendor that is not able to have a QA process that makes sure all screws and bolts are in place, fastened and secured. Even if it would not be an airplane where this is critical for safety, even if it would just be a toaster, I would stop buyi…

I also find it troubling that according to various press reports today the initial inspection instructions Boeing has given to the airlines have pretty much boiled down to "look around if you find loose bolts somewhere". If they had a working documented QA process they should have been able to immediately release step by step instructions on what exactly needs to checked and where.

My company builds routers, which are far less mission critical. We have step by step instructions on QA steps both hanging on our walls and available digitally, too. It would take us an hour or so to share these with customers.

I also wonder: All the time I only read about Alaska Airlines and United having grounded their 737 max planes. What about all the other customers of them around the world? I haven't heard of any other airline, for example here in Europe where I am, having grounded those planes for inspection. Is this a "if planes crash abroad it won't damage our shareholder value in the US that much" kind of strategy...?

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#535

Post by jmward01 »

StreetChief wrote: post #320
jmward01 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I used to fly as a day job though. I have dreams of owning my own plane some day but it is so ridiculous to own one that that it is at best a dream. Also, I really do think Boeing is a source of issues in the aviation industry. This is all about ruts. Aviation is in a huge one right now and Boeing has a lot of the blame for creating that rut. Ruts are inevitable though for math reasons beyond this post so I don…

You seem to assume they will magically get out of their rut for some reason. If cutting costs is the rut boeing is in, what will cause them to get out of it? For a poorly functioning company, bankruptcy is the usual, but mcdonell douglas and boeing are strategic assets, so bankruptcy isnt allowed, and they can take our tax money and deliver death.

Aviation is in a rut. Boeing isn't all of aviation. Rut busting generally happens from something new. Electric aviation has all the hallmarks of that thing. Basically, everything about designing and operating an electric aircraft is at a lift-off point (pun only partially intended). We are nearing break-even at short distances and likely within a few years long distance aircraft will be possible. When that happens jet engines will die, quickly, and the entire economic structure of every part of aviation will change. (Don't bet on big airports and massive cattle car planes in that new world) This is a recipe for rut busting if I ever heard one. But I can (easily) be wrong and the change may come from other places. I highly doubt however that the change will come from Boeing. They aren't implementing the strategies needed to bust ruts in their practices so they aren't likely to be the source of the change and quite possibly will fail as a company when that change hits.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#536

Post by bitcharmer »

daedalus_j wrote: post #445
bitcharmer wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example the recent crash in Japan. Airbus isn't getting railed for that. What a bizarre comment to make. Why on earth would Airbus get railed for what happened in Japan?

My point is that Boeing will take the flak for what is arguably a pilot error situation with the MAX crashes. We should be very careful to distinguish between actual airframe issues and issues that are related to politics and poor decision making or training. There's nothing we know of that is fundamentally unsound about the 737 MAX airframe, there are mistakes that have been made in very small subset of the airframe…

> My point is that Boeing will take the flak for what is arguably a pilot error situation with the MAX crashes

It's hard to say if you're trolling or just very misinformed. Boeing was hiding the fact that MAX had additional system to correct the pitch from the pilots.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#537

Post by Sakos »

scheme271 wrote: post #515
Sakos wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only planes with the type of door that failed on the Alaskan airlines flight are grounded.

I think most of the 737 max 9s have the door plug since it's only replaced with an actual door when in a high density configuration used by low cost carriers.

Sure, but not all of them do. There are some that weren't grounded and have continued to be in use.

https://skift.com/2024/01/08/a-breakdown-of-carriers-that-op... This says there are 215 planes being used by airlines.

https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/updates-grounding-boeing-737-ma... This states that 171 planes are affected by the grounding.

Re: Is my plane a 737 MAX?

#538

Post by ddalex »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #187
eastbound wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It’s just that people want to vote with their feet, and inflict damage to Boeing for abhorrent behavior. I mean not even every army general in every country has killed as many as Boeing.

> people want to vote with their feet, and inflict damage to Boeing for abhorrent behavior People want to express outrage. That’s understandable. Most flight revenue is from frequent travellers, and they understand the business enough to know histrionics won’t change Boeing’s incumbency. A couple people who fly twice a year swapping airlines isn’t going to move the needle. And I doubt a material fraction of them are…

That's why we need to be vocal about the badness of 737 MAX - bad reputation is just as worse as people not flying.
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