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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

jenson.org

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Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#531
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! -- I'm curious if you had some efficient way to find that?

Front page of HN (or any story page), search box at bottom of page. Enter “gcanyon iOS”. Click on “Stories” and change it to “Comments”. Click on “Popularity” and change it to “Date”. (Actually I first entered “gcanyon iOS business”, but did not find it.)

Wow, I had never scrolled down and noticed that. I was trying google searches, which were not doing the trick.

Thanks! TIL

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#532

People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile. I actively avoid having to type anything on mobile. If I have my laptop open, I'll use whatsapp or signal on that. I often wait replying on either of those until I get my laptop. Just way less frustrating to not have to correct >25% of my key presses. If I have to use the mobile keyboard, I'll often just send a message with typos, no capitals, and skip…

I just want a iPhone with a blackberry keyboard

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#533

People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile. I actively avoid having to type anything on mobile. If I have my laptop open, I'll use whatsapp or signal on that. I often wait replying on either of those until I get my laptop. Just way less frustrating to not have to correct >25% of my key presses. If I have to use the mobile keyboard, I'll often just send a message with typos, no capitals, and skip…

I find that typing on a phone (iPhone or Android) these days is substantially easier than typing on an iPad because of swipe. It's still nowhere as efficient as a keyboard in the hands of a skilled typist, but I can often produce text fast enough that it isn't worth getting out my laptop. On an iPad it's far worse, because I actually do have to use the bad QWERTY touchscreen key-by-key. What I keep hoping for as far…

The only reason swipe works so well is because of how well people know the QWERTY layout, though. You'd have to have a pretty unique situation for it to be worth your time to thoroughly learn a new keyboard layout just to speed up typing on your phone.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#534

People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile. I actively avoid having to type anything on mobile. If I have my laptop open, I'll use whatsapp or signal on that. I often wait replying on either of those until I get my laptop. Just way less frustrating to not have to correct >25% of my key presses. If I have to use the mobile keyboard, I'll often just send a message with typos, no capitals, and skip…

> People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile.

I mean yes, of course, but how could it be otherwise? A desktop keyboard is 10x the size of an entire mobile phone. The idea that it should somehow be possible to attain the typing performance provided by such a large dedicated input device on a phone the size of a keyboard's space bar is pretty ridiculous.

And I'm unconvinced that the "Eloquent" design presented in the article is a step forward. The "T-Menu" looks terrible and confusing, and I find the drag animations quite jarring.

The only obvious, intuitive mobile interface for text entry is speech-to-text. I know it isn't quite there yet, but that doesn't mean fiddling with details of how cursor movement works on a phone screen has any realistic chance of ever solving the problem.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use that for selection as well, tap somewhere else on the keyboard. Used to be even better with 3D Touch, you did not have to wait for the long press to register.

Unfortunately this affordance isn’t available when trying to make a selection in noneditable text. Since often on mobile devices I am responding to comment threads (in slack or gitlab or Jira, or indeed right now on HN, for example) the challenges I have in copy-pasting are often in grabbing text from a prior comment to quote, rather than in selecting my own text.

One cool thing about the Samsung s-pen is it can select any text on the screen (drag while holding the pen button)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#536

This is absolutely a problem, but I'm not convinced the author has found a solution. I'd have to try it to know for sure, but from the description, it still sounds finicky. I believe touch screens are fundamentally a bad interface for productivity. Consider the range of actions provided by a mouse: You can hover without clicking, you can left click, or you can right click, all with nearly pixel-level precision. Add i…

Why not something akin to "fixed-offset cursor"? Actual cursor/pointer is always a centimeter above the finger position (thus always visible [bottom of the screen to be handled as a special case]), and finger movements manipulate position, while hold duration accesses alternate modes.

For a somewhat similar implementation (touchscreen is essentially handled as touchpad) look at how Teamviewer handles remote sessions to Windows desktop from smartphones.

I would really like any/all of those as a toggle-on mode for use on Android itself... selecting text with arthritis fingers is a pain – literally and figuratively.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A smartphone is like a computer with a one-button mouse " Not quite. A touchscreen can detect many fingers, that can do many gestures. The problem is, exept zooming (pinching with 2 fingers) and moving around (swiping with 2 fingers) the potential is pretty much unused.

It's a good point, but I'm not sure how to use those gestures for text entry. TFA didn't go down the multi-touch route either in their proposal. But it's possible I'm not being creative enough!

iOS already has three-finger pinch to copy/paste, and three-finger swipe to undo/redo. But I find that these gestures are too unreliable for regular use, the gestures almost always activate some other click target plus my other fingers are busy holding the phone.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A smartphone is like a computer with a one-button mouse " Not quite. A touchscreen can detect many fingers, that can do many gestures. The problem is, exept zooming (pinching with 2 fingers) and moving around (swiping with 2 fingers) the potential is pretty much unused.

It's a good point, but I'm not sure how to use those gestures for text entry. TFA didn't go down the multi-touch route either in their proposal. But it's possible I'm not being creative enough!

If you forced me to implement something without doing any research, I’d suggest:

First, (iOS perspective but it’s not that different than Android) to convert the suggestions row to a row of function keys anytime Shift was held down. No annoying delays or extra taps waiting for the menu pop-up. So now you can use two fingers to cut copy paste undo instead of using several seconds and a popup that can appear anywhere onscreen. Next, arrow keys. Heck, use the same Shift hack and, when Shifted, replace the space bar and the dead useless area below it with a big inverted T. Our phones have gotten much bigger and yet especially on iOS the keyboard hasn’t grown a pixel since what, iOS 5? Case in point: no number row still for Apple, even as an option. Wtf.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#539
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3D touch solves some problems for touch interfaces, but sadly Apple killed it (everywhere except Magic Trackpad, for some reason).

It never worked though. It would just pop in randomly at unexpected times. It sucked.

Hmm. It worked fabulously for me, and spared me from waiting a beat every. Single. Time. that I want to get what we now know as a long-press menu.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#540
post #69
post #8

My biggest problem in editing on mobile is changing a text selection (for example a long URL or long text paragraphs) that don't fit on screen at once. Once I have to scroll (vertically or, even worse, horizontally) in addition to moving the selection handles the UX is just terrible.

I don't know about IPhone but on Android its simply impossible to Paste text between two words. You can't paste text into cursor position you can only replace selected text with Pasted text. Thats my main biggest issue. Also, why the fuck there no Copy/Paste buttons on mobile keyboard??

The hacker keyboard and unexpected keyboards both offer ctrl-[acvx]
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