80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans • Hacker News Board

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#531

Post by evantbyrne » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 12:31 AM UTC

Nasrudith wrote: post #236

evantbyrne wrote: post #32

I was recently offered a long-term contract job that was double anything I would expect my salary to be. Why? Because the company instituted a policy of not hiring new remote employees. So the workaround to get the help they need is to hire contractors that aren't beholden to silly employee policies.

Double what you expect your salary should be is to be expected for contracting from healthcare and other expenses alone. Never mind the instability premium.

Absolutely. Working on 1099 means paying significantly higher taxes, doing so as quarterly estimated payments, zero benefits, business expenses, and a lot less legal protection. It needs to be a decent margin just to break even. I was more commenting on how counterproductive RTO policy is.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#532

Post by 0xblinq » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:05 AM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #309

0xblinq wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headphones thing reminds me of a big events ticketing company I worked for that, when people complained about noise, distractions, etc they came up with the amazing solution of using your health and wellness budget to buy noise cancelling headphones. Most full of bullshit company I’ve ever worked for.

"You guys had a health and wellness budget?!"

Yeah, used for noise cancelling headphones and therapy. :thisisfine:

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#533

Post by twobitshifter » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:07 AM UTC

I found it very surprising that Zoom itself would about face on remote work. Even if they’re seeing real problems, keeping remote work will give them a meaningful incentive to fix those problems, and likely add up to a better product.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#534

Post by yourapostasy » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 3:39 AM UTC

pharmakom wrote: post #422

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Save 50% of your gross salary, invest in index funds, and be patient. You can speed up the process via geo-arbitrage, climbing the career ladder without lifestyle creep, working at a FAANG, being more frugal, or side hustles. Search for FIRE for more details. It’s not easy by any stretch.

Let's be honest, it's only possible for people with rare skills and/or prestigious credentials (which are largely a function of your parents social class). Earning median wage most of that goes towards rent. There's nothing left to save. Move further away and you lose big on earnings.

> Earning median wage most of that goes towards rent. There's nothing left to save. Move further away and you lose big on earnings.

If you are in your teens or 20's in a median wage income, then I advise considering vanlife grinding towards FIRE. I spent so much time in libraries or labs at that stage of my life that in hindsight, I should have dismissed the stigma of "homelessness" and adopted vanlife, scraped enough together for a duplex down payment, rent both sides out initially until one side is paid off, and then settle in that side should I want out of vanlife at that point.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#535

Post by tekknik » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:07 AM UTC

atleastoptimal wrote: post #503

n4r9 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone working 7 other jobs while pretending to work for us... Thankfully just by saying you need to be in the office a few days a week will weed out 90% of timewasters Either they're not producing enough output to warrant their salary - in which case you have good grounds to fire them regardless - or they're perfectly productive - in which case why does it matter? The biggest issue many managers have is that they…

Many employers feel very insecure when their employees don't spend the majority of their waking hours fixated on their job.

Probably because they believe salaried pay means 24/7 access to your talents.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#536

Post by tekknik » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:08 AM UTC

ryanmcbride wrote: post #469

dehrmann wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the sunk cost of a commercial lease had more weight in the decision than the employees' opinions did That's not what they're saying. They're saying they don't know how to plan their commercial real estate footprint when they don't know if and when people will be in the office.

Which could easily be solved by doing what the company I work for did, just don't renew the office lease and go 100% remote

Or they could also ask

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#537

Post by tekknik » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:13 AM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #530

hudon wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they're not saying lifestyle expenses are a tax in themselves, but rather the inflation on the lifestyle expense is a tax (ie. "cost of living"), as well as the need for certain expenses to begin with (eg. the need for a nanny because both parents need to work long hours bc of high COL and commute times)

I still think "expense" is more appropriate than "tax". The difference is that you get to blame someone else for a tax, but expenses are something you bring on yourself. Victim mentality.

So having to pay $1.2mil for a 3 bedroom home instead of $300k because I need to be near the office because RTO is an expense I choose?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#538

Post by catmanjan » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:29 AM UTC

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #392

catmanjan wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really possible for an individual to “build wealth” without exploiting the working class

Save 50% of your gross salary, invest in index funds, and be patient. You can speed up the process via geo-arbitrage, climbing the career ladder without lifestyle creep, working at a FAANG, being more frugal, or side hustles. Search for FIRE for more details. It’s not easy by any stretch.

Aren’t index funds just based on the profits of exploitative companies?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#539

Post by deterministic » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:44 AM UTC

Companies that doesn’t provide flexible WFH will simply be less competitive in the jobs market. Ending up with candidates that aren’t good enough to work for WFH flexible companies.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#540

Post by Ms-J » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 4:58 AM UTC

footy wrote: post #510

Ms-J wrote: post #495

I've noticed that CEO's who forced people back to the office really regretted it after the senior engineer's and related all quit. They offered to make it remote again but by that time all of their talent left so at least two companies I know of. There is no amount of money that would get the best and most talented to go work in an office. Productivity suffers immensely in an office as opposed to working from home.

This happened at my old job. I left because of RTO (after trying to come to a reasonable agreement with my manager). Between the day I put in my two weeks' notice and my actual last day, there were at least seven farewell emails from other devs. The company was about 500 people, so that's >1% attrition in two weeks. The CEO spoke to me for the first time ever trying to get me to stay, offered me a gigantic raise, etc…

Wow! I'm glad that everyone joined in your cause as well and the CEO offered you so much to stay. The best thing you could have done (and did!) was leave. Very happy for you.