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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#531

Post by freeAgent »

supernikio2 wrote: post #284
Ygg2 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future web will require you to have certified browser - Chrome ™, to access the web. It will require certified OS Windows™, running on trusted Hardware TPM™, running trusted firmware CIA™. You'll have no choice and your love will be mandatory. This won't stop malware of course. However a skull clamp will be installed to monitor your thoughts and you will be zapped if undesirable thoughts are detected. Note: it's a hy…

Can Google really do this? What if I'm using Safari on OS X, or Firefox on Linux?

Firefox on Linux will likely lead to problems accessing various services/websites.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#532

Post by xnx »

hellojesus wrote: post #390
ChatGTP wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget, increasingly transport, you won't be able to get a taxi in SF soon without being monitored / tracked by Google.

How so? Are they requiring request of taxis via a site with Google analytics?

I think they're alluding to Waymo. I feel much better about Google tracking my taxi rides than I do with Uber, Lyft, random taxi company, my cell phone company, etc.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#533

Post by devsda »

dontreact wrote: post #472
devsda wrote: post #397

There are many arguments against this but not many brought the implications for search engines. If websites implement this, it will effectively make building a web search engine impossible for new entrants. The current players can whitelist/attest their own clients while categorizing every other scraping clients as bots. If not for other reasons, I can't see how Google a search company can be allowed to push somethin…

Is it possible for them to implement this API in such a way that it will fail 5% of the time or so, making it impossible for websites to deny individuals based on failing attestation? https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

I cannot trust a known thief and let them into my house based on their promise not to steal.

I have no way of knowing if they are honest or not and even if they are there's no guarantee that they won't change their mind later.I cannot take the risk and be on guard forever.

I would much prefer not to allow them into the house in the first place.

Google should not have brought this proposal but they did.So, I will not place my trust in Google doing the right thing irrespective of their claims and promises.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#534

Post by soumyadeb »

coldpie wrote: post #213
soumyadeb wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? FTC against Google doesn't produce much results on Google (kind of an irony :)) Have seen FTC going against Amazon because the FTC chair had published prior work against Amazon's practices. Not defending Amazon but FB/Google are a much bigger threat than Amazon.

Citation for what, increased anti-trust activity from the FTC over the last two years? Sure, here's one article: > Private equity deals and transactions in the healthcare and technology sectors continue to attract heightened antitrust scrutiny... > The US agencies have also demonstrated an increased interest in challenging vertical transactions. > In January 2022, for example, the FTC sued to block Lockheed Martin's…

Citation for this statement.

>The FTC has been more active on anti-trust issues in the past two years than at any time in the past 30

FTC being more active in past two years over previous 30 is a strong statement.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#535

Post by encody »

dcchambers wrote: post #521
encody wrote: post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

> It only appears on Chromium-based browsers. Small anecdote: I am not sure how you're detecting the browser, but this note still appears in Orion (webkit-based browser) while it does not in Safari. Persists even when I change user agent explicitly to Firefox or Safari.

I check for the existence of `window.chrome`. I've never heard of Orion browser before, but based on a brief glance at their website, my guess is that because they allow running of Chrome extensions, they are also replicating at least some functionality provided by Chromium-based browsers, including `window.chrome`.

Thanks for pointing this out, but I won't fix this.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#536

Post by caskstrength »

freeAgent wrote: post #301
btown wrote: post #162

From the spec author, in 2022 [0]: > I decided to make this an app in the end. This is where my costs started wracking up. I had to pay for a second hand macbook pro to build an iOS app. Apple’s strategy with this is obvious, and it clearly works, but it still greatly upsets me that I couldn’t just build an app with my linux laptop. If I want the app to persist for longer than a month, and to make it easy for friends…

This is especially surprising coming from a Linux user who presumably understands the desire to have a device that runs code one can read, write, compile, execute, and share freely and without needing to receive approval from a Big Tech gatekeeper.

Maybe desire for great performance review is much greater in the author than being able to access the Web from his Linux laptop?

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#537

Post by strix_varius »

mardifoufs wrote: post #264
mozball wrote: post #26

If this isn't the straw that breaks the camel's back, there is never going to be one. Google needs to be broken up. They own the browser market. They own the web (through Adwords). They own Search. They own mobile. They own most of the video sharing market with 2.5 billion monthly annual users. They own a good chunk of email with 1.2 billion monthly annual users. They have amassed an incomprehensible amount of power…

Why should the US break up an asset like Google? Would be completely self defeating. This isn't like standard oil or at&t, that mostly had influence and market share inside the US. It would basically be handing power to foreign competitors who would pounce at the opportunity And I'm not American so it's not even some sort of patriotic comment. If Europe , or anywhere else, had a Google sized Behemoth, they wouldn't m…

> Why should the US break up an asset like Google? Would be completely self defeating.

Because in the short term it would disrupt a major company (ala Standard Oil), but in the long term it would allow the US to remain competitive in the global market.

If we allow Google to continue abusing its monopoly power in the US, that guarantees that the US will not be the home of the future technologies of the world. Innovations will be sucked up and killed as acquisitions. Enormous energy will be focused on blatant moat-building like WEI instead of developments that benefit the world. etc.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#538

Post by encody »

0JzW wrote: post #517
encody wrote: post #186

It's small, but here's a real actionable item that you can do to help: Put a gentle "Use Firefox" (or any other non-Chromium-based browser) message on your website. It doesn't have to be in-your-face, just something small. I've taken my own advice and added it to my own website: https://geeklaunch.io/ (It only appears on Chromium-based browsers.) We can slowly turn the tide, little by little.

i find this comment a bit funny given that you use googletagmanager on your website :)

Sorry, comes default with Hugo (sort of). Set it up when I was playing around with the website configuration and never bothered to remove it. I don't use the analytics, so I will delete. Thanks for pointing out.

note to self: hn is a great place to debug & review your site

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#539

Post by verisimi »

c0l0 wrote: post #5

I feel like I have to repeat this, since so much is at stake here, where it is about the preservation of the web as we know it today, at the peril of having it turned into yet another walled garden: The only way around the dystopia this will lead to is to constantly and relentlessly shame and even harass all those involved in helping create it. The scolding in the issue tracker of that wretched "project" shall flow l…

Imo, the idea that this is about selling advertising and maintaining market share is being used as a false justification. This is not about being able to drive users to ads.

The bigger picture is that Google et al are actually part of the control structure. The governance system wants deanonymised Internet. Corporate interests are how this is being promoted - government legislation would be a harder pill for the masses to accept.

But all the recent mega changes tell us (Elon buying twitter, etc) tell us that this is on the way. Apparent anonymous internet will be sandboxed. Knowing everything about everyone all the time, and having that data being crunched by ai's is an amazing, audacious goal, that seems close to being achieved.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#540

Post by JohnFen »

dontreact wrote: post #472
devsda wrote: post #397

There are many arguments against this but not many brought the implications for search engines. If websites implement this, it will effectively make building a web search engine impossible for new entrants. The current players can whitelist/attest their own clients while categorizing every other scraping clients as bots. If not for other reasons, I can't see how Google a search company can be allowed to push somethin…

Is it possible for them to implement this API in such a way that it will fail 5% of the time or so, making it impossible for websites to deny individuals based on failing attestation? https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

I don't see how that fixes the problem.
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