Here in California you can go to JC almost if not completely free. Transfer to a UC school with TAP (guaranteed), and save considerable amounts of money. I will never recommend paying for a 4 year university, it's just not worth it when you can get the same exact diploma for half the price.
Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#532And has the populace gotten more educated?
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
If only governments could make…laws to restrict the price of University. Or…could limit the maximum loan size thus encouraging Universities to not charge more than that.
Price controls are one of the few things that economists on both sides of the political aisle agree do not work, and/or have unintended consequences which are worse than the problem they attempt to resolve. https://www.econlib.org/the-consensus-on-price-controls/
You won't find many economists arguing against farm subsidies, which are a form of price control. This is among the oldest practices of statecraft in history.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
Purely out of interest: what do they do with all that money? Does it increase the quality of education and/or research?
Administration. There’s a growth in admin [0] that I think is the proliferation of the most bullshit of bullshit jobs. It’s weird that I think the issue is much worse by basically funding all these admin positions that pay more than actual instructors and researchers yet I’m not sure what they really do. I’d like to see universities advertise low admin:student and admin:instructor as measured of quality. [0] https://…
Yale is not a representative college. It makes 4x the income from its endowment than from tuition, room, and board. It also has multiple research labs and a hospital. They don't break down the staff (admin) by department, but 2/3 of all faculty are in the school of Medicine, most on the clinical side. I would assume most of the staff (admin) are also working at the hospital.
https://oir.yale.edu/data-browser/faculty-staff/faculty/facu...
Universities are not just educational institutions. You can't just compare students numbers to employee numbers without also examining what the university does.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems fine to me. If someone has no assets and no reasonable prospects to pay back $100,000 of debt, then saddling them with $100,000 of debt is a bad idea. Additionally, discharging student loans in bankruptcy should absolutely not be a way to get off scot-free, it's meant as an escape valve. If your options are the terrible downsides of declaring bankruptcy and the terrible downsides of a life in extreme debt,…
Right but see the problem is how does a really smart poor person get an education so they can become a really smart rich person?
Well, as a start states can start refunding their colleges and universities, to levels that used to be common [until roughly the 90s].
After that, it becomes more prescriptive around roles of operation, and that's murkier. For example, I'd be happy to see hard caps on $ of operational budget spent on admin. I'd also be happy if sports was budgeted for separately and that student athletes were separately admitted to both their sport(s) and for academic study. There are many things states could do that would impact how schools are managed, regardless of the federal government's rules for student loan lending.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#536Makes sense when you have student loans backed by the federal government. If an 18 year old with no money and no credit history gets accepted into a qualifying university, she will be able to receive a loan since the bank knows that the government will protect their investment if she fails to pay them back. So now young people have this easy access to credit, and universities can greatly increase tuition and fees wit…
Two things you have to do to keep tuition costs down nowadays, by my estimation, unless you get a full ride scholarship or accepted by the an Ivy League: - Do your first two years at community college. A lot of states have zero tuition costs for community college credits. I think in all 50 states its the absolute cheapest way to do get your first two years done - Enterprising students may realize that if you're marri…
Agreed about community college. It’s unfortunate though that, like so many things, it’s essentially a lottery on where you’re born. Some community colleges are wonderful, others not.
I’ve heard of other FAFSA games as well - last I heard the parents’ cars and primary residence were excluded from the FAFSA expected contribution calculation so middle class folks with a fat savings account might decide to buy new cars or pay off the mortgage or do something similar to make the cash “disappear”. Deferred compensation plans are used along the same lines for income. The fact that such games are viable is a shame but probably unavoidable unless we have government foot the bill for college.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, you can't get blood out of a turnip. If the borrower has no money to pay, they aren't going to pay, bankruptcy or not.
Since there is pretty much no social safety net, people are probably going to find some sort of work even if they have a lot of student loan debt. And, the debt servicer can garnish those wages. You are essentially selling yourself into slavery if you take a student loan! (And the reasoning is so weird to me; I went to a state school and tuition was $750/semester. Why are people paying more unless they are extremely…
Garnishment is capped by law and most judges are favorable to former students over the banks, so it's usually well below that.
> I went to a state school and tuition was $750/semester.
I paid about $800 per quarter in 1996. Even at tax subsidized state schools, tuition has gotten much more expensive since then.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#538Earlier quoted context omitted.
Administration. There’s a growth in admin [0] that I think is the proliferation of the most bullshit of bullshit jobs. It’s weird that I think the issue is much worse by basically funding all these admin positions that pay more than actual instructors and researchers yet I’m not sure what they really do. I’d like to see universities advertise low admin:student and admin:instructor as measured of quality. [0] https://…
Yale is not a representative college. It makes 4x the income from its endowment than from tuition, room, and board. It also has multiple research labs and a hospital . They don't break down the staff (admin) by department, but 2/3 of all faculty are in the school of Medicine, most on the clinical side. I would assume most of the staff (admin) are also working at the hospital. https://oir.yale.edu/data-browser/faculty…
Of course Yale isn’t representative, it’s just one data point in a national trend.
I don’t understand your point.
Do you dispute that admin staff have grown at a high rate?
My point is that universities have too much admin and that it’s growth quickly. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to compare this trend without knowing exactly what specific universities do.
I agree that comparing medical system admin staff wouldn’t make sense, and the article I linked excludes medical system and other non-university staff.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're paying $20k for daycare and there's not really a free option, that's just what you have to do. If you're paying $20k for private school, and there's a free option (public school) - you obviously have a healthy amount of disposable income.
But once you've become sensitized to the impact of paying for daycare on your budget, it's easy to logically just continue the same budget and funnel the same money to a different school.
This. I put my kid into daycare because it didn't cost more than daycare and I'd been paying it this long, what was paying it forever when I'm financially stable. My kid is special needs and the public school would have never accommodated her like this private school has.
Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
PPP loans weren't really loans. It was known they would be forgiven before taking them out. If that had not been the case, most businesses would not of participated. I believe they were structured as loans providing a mechanism for congress to pass the aid immediately. Actual business loans require assets/collateral, even those from the SBA. At least this has been my personal experience with my businesses. You can't…
That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me. Businesses make way more money than an individual, so why charge the individual more APR? And PPP really should not have been forgivable - if you run a business, then it’s your responsibility to have enough money in the coffers to survive any economic downturns. Individuals get punished way more harshly than businesses when things go south.
> And PPP really should not have been forgivable - if you run a business, then it’s your responsibility to have enough money in the coffers to survive any economic downturns. Individuals get punished way more harshly than businesses when things go south.
If that business goes under, how many individuals are out of a job?
The PPP loans were intended to keep _individuals_ employed.