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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#531

Post by cutemonster »

twelve40 wrote: post #504
amelius wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile nobody is speaking about the real enemy here, which is data-brokers who will gladly sell any data of US citizens to evil countries. We would be better served by a total ban on user tracking technologies.

data brokers like who? and what the hell would China even do with my data? or which countries is my data supposedly sold to?

One thing Xi and Putin want to do, is to manipulate you to vote for their favorite future president (or future dictator) in the US. (Don't know if you're in the US though)

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#532

Post by williamcotton »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #387
egorfine wrote: post #379

I live in a country where such a ban on certain "enemy" social networks was implemented a few years ago. What will happen is this. Teens will download a shit ton of VPN applications, the vast majority of which are specifically produced and marketed by the enemy to circumvent said ban. Then all users' phone traffic gets routed via the enemy VPN instead of just the social app's requests. Win-win for both sides: - the g…

Or vendors that currently sell cases and repair screens will then offer a service to sideload such apps for teens and install who knows what other stuff on phones for a fee from a customer and malware vendors. The Prohibition did now work back then and only made the Mafia rich and made them push drugs when it was lifted.

Isn’t this like banning Tsingtao but leaving literally everyone other brand of beer, wine and liquor on the shelves?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#533

Post by TeMPOraL »

DirkH wrote: post #513
TeMPOraL wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exists. Because the problem presented here is: government bans TikTok, teenagers become experts at using VPN apps to work around the ban. Social media apps live on network effects - it's near-impossible to compete with a well-established giant directly. But this also means that, if you manage to pull a critical mass of users over from your direct competitor, most o…

Your argument rests heavily on "teens WILL overwhelmingly become VPN experts" I don't understand why it can't instead be: banning will make domestic alternatives more attractive since now you don't even need a VPN to access it. Sure some teens will use a VPN and continue to use TikTok, but I'm not sure it'll be to such an extent that we'd be forced to concede that banning was the wrong call. Also you can do both: ban…

> Your argument rests heavily on "teens WILL overwhelmingly become VPN experts"

My argument rests on "social media is sticky due to network effects".

Which is why "banning will make domestic alternatives more attractive since now you don't even need a VPN to access it" if and only if the domestic alternatives are so good in comparison to figuring out VPN, that a critical mass of domestic users switch over. Ban alone won't make it happen - TikTok is too sticky for that.

Those are teenagers we're talking about. They're resourceful, motivated, have infinite free time - learning how to use a VPN app will be trivial for them, especially that "VPN" here doesn't mean Wireguard or ISO/OSI hokus pocus, but rather a turnkey app that requires about three clicks to make your US Internet connection look like it's coming out of Somalia. It's not hard for them - and will be even easier if a ban on TikTok makes VPN companies target the teenager market directly.

> Also you can do both: ban and subsidize.

That's exactly what I recommended.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#534

Post by TeMPOraL »

therealcamino wrote: post #530
TeMPOraL wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exists. Because the problem presented here is: government bans TikTok, teenagers become experts at using VPN apps to work around the ban. Social media apps live on network effects - it's near-impossible to compete with a well-established giant directly. But this also means that, if you manage to pull a critical mass of users over from your direct competitor, most o…

Somehow I'm skeptical of your scenario where teenagers flock to government-sponsored social media.

It's not "government sponsored" as in Official Propaganda Arm of the United States, but rather "government sponsored" as in every other thing in your life, such as water, electricity, telecommunications, roads, policing, healthcare, ...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#535

Post by lost_tourist »

tlogan wrote: post #510

Can somebody explain to me how TikTok in iPhone is worse than Facebook? The say "TikTok collects a large amount of personal information, which has raised concerns about data mining and potential misuse of user data." - what information they collect and Facebook does not collect?

Well now it's probably okay due to scrutiny but not so long ago... https://www.thewrap.com/tiktok-circumvent-privacy-protection...

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#536

Post by Apofis »

egorfine wrote: post #379

I live in a country where such a ban on certain "enemy" social networks was implemented a few years ago. What will happen is this. Teens will download a shit ton of VPN applications, the vast majority of which are specifically produced and marketed by the enemy to circumvent said ban. Then all users' phone traffic gets routed via the enemy VPN instead of just the social app's requests. Win-win for both sides: - the g…

Our teens aren't this determined t use a banned platform, don't bet on them suddenly buying VPN services just to use TikTok. It's like saying "oh look Elon bought Twitter and suddenly the select few of our special users will flee to Mastadon as a result and Twitter is dead." Just a bad bet. Convenience is king.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#537

Post by tomtai »

Apofis wrote: post #536
egorfine wrote: post #379

I live in a country where such a ban on certain "enemy" social networks was implemented a few years ago. What will happen is this. Teens will download a shit ton of VPN applications, the vast majority of which are specifically produced and marketed by the enemy to circumvent said ban. Then all users' phone traffic gets routed via the enemy VPN instead of just the social app's requests. Win-win for both sides: - the g…

Our teens aren't this determined t use a banned platform, don't bet on them suddenly buying VPN services just to use TikTok. It's like saying "oh look Elon bought Twitter and suddenly the select few of our special users will flee to Mastadon as a result and Twitter is dead." Just a bad bet. Convenience is king.

Nobody is expecting teens (or any other user in Montana) to pay for a VPN...they'll use a free one.

TikTok is a far more inviting & engaging platform than Twitter at the end of the day.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#538

Post by diebeforei485 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #416
Moldoteck wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the thing is, most us people are using iphone and it doesn't have sideloading(there are chances for sideload in eu but not in other places), so instant kill for that demographic(iphone is status symbol and most people have it so they'll not switch to android). For Android - your analogy is not quite good. A better analogy would be prohibiting a mark of alcohol (tiktok) when there is another legalized mark(instagram/s…

> so instant kill for that demographic(iphone is status symbol and most people have it so they'll not switch to android) I'd wager that if TikTok got banned in the US and Apple did not immediately follow with allowing sideloading, iPhone would quickly lose its status value in the teenage demographics. After all, status matters most when comparing equivalent goods - it's what justifies spending more for the same thing…

Ir they'd move to Instagram Reels / YouTube Shorts, which are equal products except for the user base.

Bluesky is cool now because it's a gated community of privileged connected people, not because it's inherently better than Twitter.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#539

Post by brnaftr361 »

cutemonster wrote: post #531
twelve40 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

data brokers like who? and what the hell would China even do with my data? or which countries is my data supposedly sold to?

One thing Xi and Putin want to do, is to manipulate you to vote for their favorite future president (or future dictator) in the US. (Don't know if you're in the US though)

That would be a pretty considerable malinvestment considering the divisions of power and how lobbyist/special interests/ultrawealthy influences shape the American political discourse and outcomes. The whole process is a sham. It's all a very public sham, and has been, and I'm sure it's very salient to our geopolitical "opponents", and particularly those seated in the highest echelons.

However, what would make sense is sewing discord amongst the plebs and fraying the few little ties that bind which would drastically shift the US stranglehold because it would invariably lead to schismogenesis and a legitimately fractured nation with dramatic reallocation of power and character. This may be affected to some extent by bitter rivalries in the body politic, but that would be secondary to breaking the nation.

But really it just reads like the Red Scare banter all over again.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#540

Post by wewtyflakes »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #539
cutemonster wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing Xi and Putin want to do, is to manipulate you to vote for their favorite future president (or future dictator) in the US. (Don't know if you're in the US though)

That would be a pretty considerable malinvestment considering the divisions of power and how lobbyist/special interests/ultrawealthy influences shape the American political discourse and outcomes. The whole process is a sham. It's all a very public sham, and has been, and I'm sure it's very salient to our geopolitical "opponents", and particularly those seated in the highest echelons. However, what would make sense i…

Do you not believe that the governments of Russia and China will pursue their interests at the expense of the United States? Of course they would, and it seems bananas to me that we should pretend otherwise.
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