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India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

economictimes.indiatimes.com

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Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#531

Post by fakedang »

eldaisfish wrote: post #527
fakedang wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could say the same for any nation though. Right now, I would say that the Western middle class is not secure either, particularly in Europe, and just one disaster away from poverty. Young families are priced out of starter homes and there is increasing uncertainty. We don't know what is the extent of the real estate bad loan crisis in China. But if the protests surrounding it are telling, then I would say that th…

this is a flawed understanding and mischaracterises the situation. Europe’s middle class will be broke if they lose all their money. They still have institutional supports and community to fall back on. This is as true in the poorer european countries as it is in the richer ones. Not being able to afford a home is not in the same ballpark as not being able to eat. India’s middle class will fall into poverty if they l…

And what if everyone in Europe is broke? The government can magically cook up money from thin air right? Those taxes will pay for themselves right?

In India, around 3% of the population pays income tax because the rest are under the tax bracket. Yet somehow the government manages to have public schools and hospitals. During covid, when students and children in the UK were starving, India was feeding 200 million people out of the government's pockets.

Its funny seeing people who have the faintest idea of Indian ground realities make sweeping generalizations about a country of 1.5b people.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#532

Post by ciphol »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #460
ciphol wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's going on a massive metro rail spree and also massively improving intercity rail. Things are significantly improving, though there will always be traffic in a city the size of Delhi or Mumbai.

Eh, that has been ongoing forever. Most projects are grossly delayed and over budget. Not a single metro outside of Delhi has any appreciably large metro rail system. Many have been in development for a decade. Projects get routinely stuck in political gridlock or because the builder went bankrupt. The Bangalore metro project started in 2011. In over a decade, they've managed a paltry 56km of active rail lines - an a…

5km per year is higher than any European or North/South American city (except maybe Moscow), I believe.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#533

Post by ajyotirmay »

jasmer wrote: post #479
itspi wrote: post #228

I don't comment but also hate reading popular threads like this but I will do it anyway because someone was interested in hearing from someone living in India. There's so much emphasis (from comments) on information technology services contributing to this. This is a recent phenomenon. Growth due to IT services was extremely concentrated in a few cities and most took their family there. India was never a nation state…

Hong Kong became much, much richer under Colonial rule, without a 'Constitution'. No other nation needed 'school meals' in order to generate wealth, it's a nice program but hard to fathom as a 'root cause' of something. The Non-Aligned movement? India would have been much richer, much more quickly, if they were to have aligned themselves with the West. The Green Revolution / Op. Flood - well obviously that's huge, bu…

Your comment makes me feel like you don't understand India at all. At the time of independence, we were robbed of our resources by the west. Our country was divided with individual identity. Poverty, economy and quality of life were pretty bad thanks to England.

"school meals" allowed families to be able to send kids to school for education instead of getting their help at work to feed families. That means, more people were inclined towards getting education and literacy. Which was a huge deal for our country at that time.

>The Non-Aligned movement? India would have been much richer, much more quickly, if they were to have aligned themselves with the West.

India "might" have been richer without NAM but did you not notice what our close relationship with west did to us? Also, that richness would have made us into a failed state like USA (yes, I know about US' homelessness, lack of social security, and the greedy capitalism). We needed to stand on our own feet before we could make alliances. Heck, the west is still opposed to India till now. As much as I dislike Russian politics, our partnership with Russia has actually helped us develop much quicker (and yes, it was a partnership in every sense)

Indian constitution was needed, specifically because our country is so much more diverse. Are you seriously comparing a tiny piece of land (HK) to a huge landmass like India, which has hundreds of different cultures, identities, religions, languages. We absolutely needed a code to unify our country. We are still very diverse, but our unified under a single identity of Indian.

And since you folks actually acknowledge the atrocities of Nazi Germany, you should definitely look into India's colonial history. You'll understand the storm we had to endure, and what we were left with once we kicked those colonizers out of our land.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#534

Post by ajyotirmay »

agileAlligator wrote: post #472
itspi wrote: post #228

I don't comment but also hate reading popular threads like this but I will do it anyway because someone was interested in hearing from someone living in India. There's so much emphasis (from comments) on information technology services contributing to this. This is a recent phenomenon. Growth due to IT services was extremely concentrated in a few cities and most took their family there. India was never a nation state…

I would argue that India's present success is in spite of the government, not because of it. The sectors that have seen the most success in India, namely the telecom, IT and services industries, were also those that were the least regulated (because our politicians weren't smart enough to even begin to comprehend technology to regulate it before it really took off in a big way). As for the being a nation state part,…

> As for the being a nation state part, sometimes I think we would have been better off in an EU type situation rather than being one large entity.

I have the same idea. But I'm not very sure about it, specially because our divide has been the main cause of Britishers colonizing us. An united single state gives us much more resources to function properly and defend our interest against neighbors like Pakistan & China.

I could be wrong though, as EU seems to be a good example of governance

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#535

Post by powerapple »

naravara wrote: post #491
powerapple wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say one of the reason for globalism to retreat is the west (especially US) find itself in a awkward situation: developing world and developed world has to meet somewhere in the middle, which means, the living standard in developed world has to drop. For developing world to develop, you will have to go the extra miles, you are competing with big guys, trying to make a space for yourself in a crowded room. Ever…

> the living standard in developed world has to drop. That depends on how you define "living standards." For example, the USA can probably afford to lose a LOT of consumer products spending while still raising HDI metrics by simply reallocating how resources are committed. We prioritize spending in a lot of places that don't really return much in the way of physical or spiritual well-being. Think car-dependent infras…

What you are saying is absolutely true. The problem is that not everyone is going to think this way. Not having something is easy, but not having something after you had it is hard. The only way to keep the living standard high is actually technology, especially robotics. I am both pessimistic and optimistic on this. I can see a bright future for mankind slaving robotics, but I can also see technology will be guarded as weapons. The same reason in this world we have abundant stuffs and we also have people lacking of basic electricity.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#536

Post by powerapple »

adamc wrote: post #506
powerapple wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say one of the reason for globalism to retreat is the west (especially US) find itself in a awkward situation: developing world and developed world has to meet somewhere in the middle, which means, the living standard in developed world has to drop. For developing world to develop, you will have to go the extra miles, you are competing with big guys, trying to make a space for yourself in a crowded room. Ever…

I think a major reason might be that a precondition for globalism has been the US Navy patrolling the high seas and making shipping safe and reliable. As the US retreats from that, the reality will be that many countries cannot guarantee their supply lines. Peter Zeihan talks about this (and many other factors). The US has been doing this for a long time, but it's gotten to the point where it isn't clear that it is i…

It makes sense. If the west is worrying about things, it would make sense to build more capacity at home, and then everyone will just follow.

IMO, US's colonization of the world has been through finance, which has been ok for the world. Globalization is a good business for the US, de-globalization will actually accelerate the empires' declining.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#537

Post by naravara »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #492
naravara wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your ideas about population control are antiquated. It is well known that demographic change follows women's rights and economic development, particularly in access to healthcare and education. Draconian laws just lead to wide-scale oppression. India's population (and Africa's) are only growing in the regions that schooling and healthcare infrastructure haven't penetrated yet. The only controls a government can insti…

You are not commenting on what I wrote and are using the usual emotional and defeatist rhetoric to oppose any population controls. Yes, the Chinese approach has been draconian and even cruel. But it has also been effective and the point remains that we should thank them for having succeeded in controlling their population. I also do think that too little is being done to stop population growth globally because that g…

What part of "The desired outcome already happens in India and Africa through other, more constructive and humanistic methods without any of the ethical downsides" is defeatist? I don't understand the fetish for imposing draconian restrictions on would-be parents in light of those facts.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#538

Post by agileAlligator »

ajyotirmay wrote: post #534
agileAlligator wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that India's present success is in spite of the government, not because of it. The sectors that have seen the most success in India, namely the telecom, IT and services industries, were also those that were the least regulated (because our politicians weren't smart enough to even begin to comprehend technology to regulate it before it really took off in a big way). As for the being a nation state part,…

> As for the being a nation state part, sometimes I think we would have been better off in an EU type situation rather than being one large entity. I have the same idea. But I'm not very sure about it, specially because our divide has been the main cause of Britishers colonizing us. An united single state gives us much more resources to function properly and defend our interest against neighbors like Pakistan & China…

> specially because our divide has been the main cause of Britishers colonizing us

This is just plainly false. Ask any serious student of history, and he will tell you that most of India has very little in common with each other. There are at least 4 major groups of languages (groups, not counting the myriad dialects), differing opinions on laws, clothing and even food. India was never a nation before the Britishers consolidated power over present day India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and parts of Afghanistan, and made it one.

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#539

Post by retinaros »

antupis wrote: post #413
retinaros wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its amazing. and unfortunately they will be the last generation that will be able to do it. just like for western countries everything will become unaffordable and the middle class wont be able to buy houses

>middle class wont be able to buy houses It is just depends place there is still places where nimbyism does not run rampart. We we paid like 200k€ from our new house.

not everyone has the luxury to work remote. for the average person in the area of your 200k house how easy is it to afford with a normal wage?

Re: India lifted 415M out of poverty in 15 years, says UN

#540

Post by retinaros »

dntrkv wrote: post #357
rikthevik wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the doomer perspective. Tiresome.

It's not even doomer, it's just plain wrong and not based in reality whatsoever.

just look any country that has ever lifted its people out of poverty. a very recent one is south korea go look at real estate there
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