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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#531

Post by jeanlou »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

A treat to what world? A treat to the western dominated world, with rules that only favour them.

Not abiding to whose law? Those international laws that even the US and its allies would not respect when it's not convinient to their agenda and narrative.

This has led to the destruction of Irak, Libya, the killing of Lumumba, and scores of other exemples across all continents.

The western world has been responsible for destructions and destabilisations all in the name of ensuring the economical and political future of their countries.

The West would happily support and never critise authoritarian regimes such as Rwanda just because it's convinient to them, and in the same sentence accuse China and Russia. I've never seen calls for democracy in place of the Kagame's regime for example.

You are failing to see the forrest for the trees, and at the same time overlooking so many details just to prove a point.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#532

Post by lmz »

LunaSea wrote: post #523
wangii wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

when was the last time China invaded another country and killed hundreds of thousands? I really not interested in arguing good vs. evil, China VS US, but your blindness is just amazing!

Hong Kong, Tibet, maybe Taiwan next?

HK was returned, freed from colonial rule, not invaded.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#533

Post by lmz »

jes wrote: post #330
phyrex wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they “The Enemy”? Are they coming and killing Americans or is it just generic xenophobia?

I found this[1] report (PDF) from the DEA: "Currently, China remains the primary source of fentanyl and fentanyl-related substances trafficked through international mail and express consignment operations environment, as well as the main source for all fentanyl-related substances trafficked into the United States. Seizures of fentanyl sourced from China average less than one kilogram in weight, and often test above 9…

Good. Let the American's own addictions kill them off. Don't forget China's own history with the Opium wars versis the British.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#534

Post by neilsense »

EastSmith wrote: post #288
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world. Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected. https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...

Whole eastern Europe, central Europe and Scandinavia disagrees with you.

A tiny population rarely in control of their own future, and ethnically + culturally acceptable to the US.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#535

Post by noisy_boy »

dirtyid wrote: post #484
noisy_boy wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair commen…

>insideous Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current La…

Just repeating "landlocked country" twenty times doesn't paint the clearest picture. They have a lot of untapped mineral resources. It has never been rich but people have had organic means of growth like agriculture. Sure it was never blistering growth but it was steady progress that lifted everyone. Once the PRC money started to flow, they basically bought the agricultural lands and now people who used to own the lands are working as laborers in what used to be their own land. Sure they got that initial money but they never knew how to handle that - so they blew it in the casinos, also operated by the PRC or in drugs (which were always a problem, it being the Golden Triangle area) or other things like tricked-out pickup trucks. Everybody is running after that quick PRC cash and the culture is undergoing rapid changes; signboards are in Mandarin, people prefer to learn Mandarin (even though it is English that connects them to a wider part of the world). Micro level societal changes are more subtle and hard to quantify. The country is basically becoming an extension arm of China

It is easy to look everything through the lens of GDP but it is a poor measure of healthiness of a society from sociological perspective.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#536

Post by klibertp »

arroz wrote: post #497
lenkite wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and by defining their opinion on the past rather than the current geopolitical environment" Yeah, who cares about the bad stuff 3-5-10-20 years in the past! All those US wars and coups are not applicable since the USA has turned into a bright, shiny fairy now! "If they've got to be under the thumb of some foreign power, they ought to choose the US over china or russia." Yeah, the US holding a gun to your head and sa…

Well if you put bad things in the past 3-5 years, China and Russia have a lot on their hands Russia: uses their natural resources as weapons, invaded Ukraine, supports dictatorship in Syria China: embargoes anyone that dares to have a relationship with Taiwan or talks bad about the CCP, provokes Taiwan like crazy, likely will invade it in the next 10 years This is just the recent stuff, China has invaded Vietnam and…

I suspect the US would not be very happy had one of its states unilaterally declared independence and claim they're the real US (of one). China views Taiwan as a separatist, secessionist province that would be long reclaimed if not for support from the foreign powers.

Ukraine views Donetsk/Luhansk People Republics exactly the same.

Why is Ukraine right and China not?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#537

Post by bluepizza »

sumnole wrote: post #407
bluepizza wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US (famously) does not have Allies, only temporary allegiances. Far from me to defend American imperialism, but this is not true, is it? The USA has a decent list of long standing alliances, that include a variety of countries: Japan, Australia, Canada, UK, South Korea, among others.

America has been to war with Japan, Canada and the UK - which supports the fact that allies can always turn.

> allies can always turn.

But that's not what happened, is it?

Enemies turned into allies. That's quite the opposite of what you said.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#538

Post by npteljes »

alexashka wrote: post #323
tonymet wrote: post #5

they mention data harvesting and influencing public relations as risks, and both are worrisome . another more subtle but pernicious concern is the trivialization of entertainment (which started from a low bar ) tiktok is addictive and much of the content is low bar , slapstick and sexually suggestive thirst traps . there may be a good share of high quality content , but we all know time spent is on garbage. our grand…

Isn't this exactly what they said about porn? Last I checked - everyone's doing alright.

What's your definition of alright, and what have you done to check?

If it's the kind of check where you look around, and see that the world goes by - then the same "everyone's doing alright" could be said to dismiss all of history's horrors so far.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#539

Post by stackbutterflow »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #253
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

You would be surprised if you polled non-US, non-China citizens about what country is the biggest geopolitical threat to the world. Wait, I don't even need to talk in conditionals. I Googled it and apparently it has indeed been done several times, and the results are what I expected. https://brilliantmaps.com/threat-to-peace/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/us-threat-demo...

Non-US, non-China citizens don't speak Chinese but they speak English (or their journalists do). US shenanigans are for the whole world to see. You probably can't read Chinese so you have no idea how the Chinese government and their citizen view the rest of the world.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#540

Post by trasz »

thrown_22 wrote: post #225
ThisIsMyAltFace wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just 100% untrue

Yes, what happens is that the US asks Australia, part of 5 eyes, to use their back doors, which need to be install by law there https://fee.org/articles/australia-s-unprecedented-encryptio... , for any user data US agencies want. Completely different to China just having access to that data.

I like how this is getting downvoted despite being provably correct.
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