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Elon’s Out

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Re: Elon’s Out

#531

Post by imgabe »

hawaiianbrah wrote: post #422
imgabe wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yachts and planes are physical objects and represent a tiny, tiny fraction of a billionaire's wealth. Wealth is actual ownership interest in valuable companies, which can be moved offshore or the person can renounce citizenship and relocate to a country with friendlier tax laws in the extreme case.

Renouncing citizenship has something like a 20%-of-net-worth tax

Might still be worth it if there were a significant wealth tax and you did it in advance of an IPO or other event that greatly increased your net worth.

A wealth tax would also have the effect that people expecting to generate lots of wealth would just move somewhere else to do so, or not come to the US in the first place.

Re: Elon’s Out

#532

Post by jaycroft »

colechristensen wrote: post #484
Victerius wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Further questions: (1) Would it be legal for someone to own the legal entity owning their shares of publicly traded companies? (2) What if he moves all of his stock in offshore accounts?

The one used by most is DTCC, it’s basically owned by the banks who use it, not something that could be bought. The legal entity which maintains the list of teslas owners is ultimately tesla, but that duty will be likely given to dtcc. A stock is ultimately just an entry on a list maintained by the company, most offload the managing of the list to DTCC and usually the pointer isn’t to you but to your broker dealer. T…

A little more nuanced take: the transfer agent maintains a list of shareholders at the company's behest, the DTCC is one step further down the chain, operating as a clearinghouse between brokers and banks. The list of shareholders is managed by the company or it's bookkeeper, the "transfer agent". Insiders and people who own paper certificates are on the list kept by the transfer agent, directly owning their shares on the company's books, alongside Cede & Co (a partner of the DTCC), who owns the bulk of all publicly traded shares. Cede & Co, and it's partner, the DTCC, then maintain a list of which shares beneficially belong to each of the DTCC members (brokerages, banks). The brokerages and banks in turn maintain lists of which clients beneficially own the brokerage's shares.

For one commonly used transfer agent's take, see: https://www.computershare.com/us/becoming-a-registered-share...

Re: Elon’s Out

#533

Post by LMYahooTFY »

teleforce wrote: post #311
petilon wrote: post #71

This article says Musk agreed to buy Twitter mostly as a joke. I think there's a far better explanation. This wasn't a joke for Musk because after agreeing to buy Twitter he proceeded to sell billions of dollars' worth of TSLA stock, supposedly to finance the purchase. Even for the richest man in the world that's not a joke. I think a better explanation is that Musk offered to buy Twitter as a cover for selling billi…

Thank you for the explanations. How this is not one of the top comments is beyond me. This comment most logically explains all the drama started several months when Musk offered to buy Twitter. The stories generated several of the highest rated posts and several of the most commented posts at HN, just adding to the drama. Now it seems that it's quite a possibility that the Twitter drama is just a red herring for Musk…

How is it so obvious given the state of the market?

Bezos has also sold off a massive chunk of assets?

There's nothing odd at all about shorting the market during this time.

Re: Elon’s Out

#534

Post by mcguire »

mabbo wrote: post #265

A fun side effect of all of this: if you believe in the court's ability to force Musk to buy Twitter, you should continue to buy up stock until it reaches the price Musk agreed to pay for it. If you don't believe he'll be forced to pay, you should sell and/or short until it's at whatever you think the right market value for a stock of Twitter ought to be. And wherever the price is between those two is a direct functi…

"...if you believe in the court's ability to force Musk to buy Twitter, you should continue to buy up stock..."

"If you don't believe he'll be forced to pay..."

Those are two very different statements.

I absolutely believe the court can compel Elon to satisfy the contract he's gotten himself into. I don't necessarily believe the court will do so. Specific performance isn't a popular result in those courts, apparently. That being said,...

"...you should sell and/or short until it's at whatever you think the right market value for a stock of Twitter ought to be."

Yeah, no. If I thought like that, I'd have shorted Tesla long ago. I also know that "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent."

Re: Elon’s Out

#535

Post by elif »

Considering he owns 8% of shares and can't buy more than 15%, I doubt he went through all of this to shock down stock prices or for the luls, as the author assumes.

He is rich but doesn't usually like burning money.

Re: Elon’s Out

#536

Post by encryptluks2 »

mr90210 wrote: post #523
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, instead of the "Elon is a genius playing 4D chess" speculation, we can simply look at his actions and conclude than no reasonable person would seriously go about buying Twitter the way he did. Given this and previous behaviour it seems pretty reasonable to assume that Musk was doing it for the lolz and to get attention as "the savior of free speech". It's useful to note that after he signed the contract the ma…

Some people are just delusional, at this point Elon could shoot a Panda just for fun and there would be people stating that it was self-defense.

He could offer a horse and pay a 200+k settlement for sexual favors to a flight attendant, or pedo project and people would still defend him.

Re: Elon’s Out

#537

Post by baskethead »

smitty1110 wrote: post #455
Victerius wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would the Delaware Chancery seize $44B worth of Elon Musk's TSLA shares?

Well, Tesla is a Delaware company[1], so I assume they have some leverage. 1: https://sec.report/CIK/0001318605

Tesla didn't buy Twitter, Elon did.

Re: Elon’s Out

#538

Post by CamperBob2 »

rurp wrote: post #259
CamperBob2 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a stupid order that would never survive scrutiny under prior-restraint doctrine. Specific performance is something different, though... I can't think of any constitutional problems that might block enforcement of that.

Musk and his lawyers agreed to the provision, and a court approved the deal. That is pretty strong evidence it's not an absurd provision.

He has also violated it multiple times, with no sign of any consequences. That is pretty strong evidence that it was, at best, pointless.

Re: Elon’s Out

#539

Post by balderdash »

colechristensen wrote: post #484
Victerius wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Further questions: (1) Would it be legal for someone to own the legal entity owning their shares of publicly traded companies? (2) What if he moves all of his stock in offshore accounts?

The one used by most is DTCC, it’s basically owned by the banks who use it, not something that could be bought. The legal entity which maintains the list of teslas owners is ultimately tesla, but that duty will be likely given to dtcc. A stock is ultimately just an entry on a list maintained by the company, most offload the managing of the list to DTCC and usually the pointer isn’t to you but to your broker dealer. T…

Totally agree with not being able to hide owner ship (especially when are a director, major shareholder, and ceo) but I think DTCC is really only in the mix when you buy/sell shares via an exchange, and their focus is the settlement between brokers and exchanges. The registrar and transfer agent is who maintains the list of share holders (Computershare is the resgistrar and transfer agent for Tesla).

Re: Elon’s Out

#540

Post by z3phyr »

google234123 wrote: post #514
Red_Leaves_Flyy wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jail. The consequence needed here is jail. Put these clowns in jail with junkies and wife beaters and gang bangers. While we’re at it, treat them the same as their local pd treats the most vulnerable in their community. They deserve no better than the most vulnerable and marginalized.

Jail for parking multiple times in disabled places or for buying a car every 6 months? Hard no from me. Both of those things are not the same as beating people.

Routinely breaking the law and then paying fine? Jail is a good way to put routine offenders away from the civil society
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