Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

531–540 of 612 posts

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#531

Post by elif »

heavyset_go wrote: post #444
elif wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow 17 borderline cosmetic opinions on a fully functional vehicle. how dare they sell that vehicle. Not to mention that when they bought it, Tesla gave the buyer the opportunity to reject it and have another specimen manufactured at no cost. they decided to keep it because it appears their vanity is literally only skin deep.

Those are issues that would be caught by any competent quality control process, and that particular example is just from the top of the r/TeslaLounge page from a few hours ago. At any point you can log into spaces for Tesla customers and find dozens of stories of just like that one, or worse, when it comes to quality control or service center service[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]. And you make a great point abou…

it's also against guidelines to police comments in other comments...

This is my first time in 12 years on HN that mild sarcasm has been treated as confrontational. I hope you are okay.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#532

Post by rootusrootus »

Someone1234 wrote: post #147
rootusrootus wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only unreasonable if they are not providing value. Lots of us get into business exactly because we can provide value and simultaneously become wealthy. This is no sin.

If they provided value then states wouldn't have needed to enshrine their existence into law. I say let them compete with the manufacturer and see if "go to a showroom for a test drive, then click click click, buy, deliver to your home" wins Vs. "Spend an entire day haggling and avoiding all kinds of poor treatment/predatory practices." People HATE dealerships. They make a very fun purchase a very unfun purchase.

People hate dealers, love getting a car today. Dealers do what they do because it works, and it is largely what the consumer seems to prefer. You don't think dealers would do online fixed-price sales for pre-orders if it worked? They would! And they will, if the market rewards that.

Very few people actually want to wait weeks or months for the car. HN doesn't believe that, because we're tilted towards Tesla fans who are inclined to be okay with this. Average Joe will put up with a few hours at the dealer to get their new ride today.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#533

Post by bluGill »

Thorrez wrote: post #406
bombcar wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy the latest and greatest and continuously upgrade to the next greatest it’s not that expensive; often cheaper than leasing.

Do you have data on that? I thought cars lose a lot of their value as soon as they drive off the lot. And how long of leases are you talking about?

Finance companies have a good idea of what a car will be worth after you are done with it. That is why they limit miles: they know the loss of value from miles and don't want to know lose money. Their goal is when the lease ends and you turn the car in the dealer pays the entire remaining balance and sells it as a used car. Dealers make more money from selling used cars than new (everyone knows what they pay for cars and won't allow any profit, but for used you don't know what they really paid for it).

When you trade in your car the dealer will give you an offer for your car. Depending on demand this may be higher or lower than what the lease company wants. When it is higher you win. When it is lower leasing would be better. Either way though, the dealer is pricing in a profit margin from selling your car, so if you don't trade in your car but sell it yourself you can get this profit margin in exchange for your time.

In the end it is about risk management. What will the car be worth in 3 years when you are ready for a new one? Nobody knows for sure 3 years in advance. Sometimes it will be worth a lot more than the lease company expects and so you win, sometimes it will be worth less and so you lose. If you don't trade your car in you probably will always win in monetary terms, though I'm not sure if it is worth the time.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#534

Post by bluGill »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #405
refulgentis wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extreme absolutist position that seems immediately falsified by the detailed and nuanced post it is in reply to

If dealerships are so beloved by customers and so beneficial to them, why would they lobby so hard against customers doing business with manufacturers? They wouldn't need to if customers truly preferred them. Instead, Car salesman are despised even more than lawyers! Everything a dealer can do, a mechanic can do for cheaper. It's a ripoff and the law forces it to be a ripoff

Because customers don't know what value dealers provide. They think direct would be better because they only see the negatives of the current situation and not the positives.

Which is really true for pretty much everyone in this argument on both sides.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#535

Post by elif »

Thorrez wrote: post #406
bombcar wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy the latest and greatest and continuously upgrade to the next greatest it’s not that expensive; often cheaper than leasing.

Do you have data on that? I thought cars lose a lot of their value as soon as they drive off the lot. And how long of leases are you talking about?

I did the math before buying in 2021, and leasing didnt make any sense.

the reason is that tesla price increases and backlog creates added value for aftermarket teslas.

As it happens, I can sell the used car i purchased over a year ago for more than i originally paid.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#536

Post by notyourday »

itsoktocry wrote: post #493
wumpus wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> educate the consumers, financing, DMV paperwork and most importantly service your vehicles. I bought a new car direct and I was educated, my credit union was better than the manufacturer's financing offer, the manufacturer did DMV paperwork, and the manufacturer does service. 9 years ago. What am I missing?

> my credit union was better than the manufacturer's financing offer For long stretches of time most manufacturers were offering 0% financing. Tough to beat that.

> For long stretches of time most manufacturers were offering 0% financing.

On a higher price. If you took a discount that could not be combined with the 0 percent financing, and financed using traditional financing options, you ended up paying less money.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#537

Post by hesdeadjim »

_1 wrote: post #530
sillyquiet wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying this isn't true, but EV's have a set of maintenance requirements too - there are still a lot of mechanical parts - tires, suspensions, doors, etc. Not to mention electronic maintenance but I guess dealerships would have to re-train, re-certify, and re-tool technicians for that

Not nearly on the same scale. I've had a Tesla Model 3 for over three years and 25k miles and have had no maintenance done.

I’ve only had my Y for four months now, but I’ve had this very unexpected feeling towards the car (and any EV). I can only describe it as an amalgamation of clean, elegant, and freeing.

While driving there is no engine noise, no unpredictable or delayed acceleration, no need to visit a gas station and have gas drip down the side of the car, and the knowledge that the drivetrain is simple and reliable and isn’t saturated with petroleum products.

I’ve owned some very nice BMWs before the Y, and while I greatly miss the suspension performance I can’t imagine going back to ICE.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#538

Post by bombcar »

jancsika wrote: post #498
bombcar wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course in this market if you had bought one you could have immediately drove it back onto the lot and sold it back for more than you paid …

Yes. But that's like the Mitch Hedberg joke where he sees stacks of Sam's Cola at Sam's Club for 25 cents and suddenly in his mind he's become a soda salesman. "Hi, would you like to buy a can of soda for 50 cents? It's warm, because this is a half-ass deal..."

Heh I was referring to the fact that used 2019 models with 40k miles on them currently will sell for MORE than MSRP for a brand new car, because the used one is on the lot and available, the new ones are 6 months out.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#539

Post by thehappypm »

eatonphil wrote: post #40
peter422 wrote: post #30

I recently bought a Prius Prime and the amount of work I had to do to buy it at MSRP was ridiculous. If you have an oversubscribed car the dealer model just doesn’t work. If car companies are going to compete in the future they will have to either eliminate dealers or at least force some type of structure to the sales process, otherwise people will gravitate to the companies that do (like Tesla).

Dumb questions: isn't this just the market at work though? Why is it actually a problem for car makers if the car is sold above MSRP? Just a worse consumer experience that reflects poorly on the brand? Sony seems to deal with it with sold-out ps5 and resellers gauging. I mean you're not the only one suggesting this is a problem. Ford clearly seems to have a problem with dealerships and their markup I guess (or I misr…

It’s a problem because the dealer keeps the markup. The dealer isn’t doing any R&D or really much of value, as you can see they’re being replaced by a web site.
Post reply on HN