Live data from Hacker News

The Coming Food Catastrophe

economist.com

531–540 of 634 posts

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen one of these that takes major factors into account. Tires and pet food contain animals. Animal by-products are used everywhere. Switching away would require replacements. Replacements would become more efficient with economy of scale, but initial switching costs will be high. Some replacements, like food for our obligate-carnivore cats, might not be possible. Simplest example: Beyond meat is 2-4x the p…

> There's likely an optimal level of meat consumption. Just going to go out on a limb and say the optimal level is probably less than the typical North American or European diet... Societies that are more resource constrained eat a lot less meat.

> Societies that are more resource constrained eat a lot less meat.

They also lag the life expectancy curve by about 10 years. There are a lot of factors at play obviously, but the universal trend is richer countries have better medical care, education, and more complete diets.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#532
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grass-fed cows use more land and water than grain-fed cows. So no.

Are you going to take your bucket out to the Great Plains and capture some of that water?

I can play that game too. Are you going to solve hunger by conjuring more great plains and have the cows graze there?

Because that's the point I'm making. Grass fed beef cannot scale up beyond current production to solve hunger.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What they were into, big time, was canning vegetables, and gardening (to grow stuff to put in the cans). Man, were they ever into canning vegetables." Ditto

I became aware of the world just as seasonal food availability was becoming a thing of the past—I remember significantly more seasonal variation, but only when I was pretty young—so this really stuck with me growing up. All those colorful jars lined up on shelves, all the gardening, all the boiling-of-jars, et c. All that work, and a can of the same thing was $0.29 at the store. So I assume they all developed these s…

I'm going to ramble a bit... I grew up on a farm in the actual middle of nowhere. It was a then-defunct, mid-size dairy. In it's heyday it had 300 head of Holstein being milked.

My mother, whose parents ran the dairy, and to a large extent my father, instilled this way of life on me at a young age. Growing up, we had a huge vegetable garden (they still maintain a 1/8 acre vegetable lot in their 70s, it's quite impressive, really -- and that's in addition to a 400 sq. ft. greenhouse I helped my father build and the rest of their lot that has fruit trees, berry bushes, etc.) but I was always in awe of the canning and the preserving. You grow all of this food but you only eat 20% of it fresh, canning and preserving the other 80%. But then, being so young I didn't realize that our meals consisted of vegetables/fruits that were canned or preserved years previously, of course. There was a strong communal aspect to it, too. We'd get oversupply from neighbors and/or give oversupply to neighbors.

Chickens, too. The farm had a coup. My parents had a coup (they gave it up in their late 60s -- my father grew tired of dealing with the foxes and skunks they attracted). It's something I want to do but where I live it's impossible. We're planning on a move where we can have a chicken coup and more space for growing food in general. I'd really like to preserve the heritage, as it were, and it's become more important as we start a family.

Also, I've dealt with corn and wheat weevils before. I actually did not realize that they also laid eggs on rice. I guess I assumed that it was "different" or whatever but thank you for highlighting that in other comments. I've got 50 lbs. of rice that I'm going to break down to smaller vacuum sealed bags this weekend. I've dealt with weevils at least a half of a dozen times in my past and it is not pleasant. I do not want a repeat of that mess, but especially where I live today.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#534
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? can you quantify what that means, are they going hungry, short of fuel, is their currency collapsing, do they have rampant inflation? Or is just that people that got us in this mess are telling you that some how russians are suffering so much that they have to give up. Wasn't that suppose to happen immediately upon the weaponisation of the USD? When will it happen, after we all starve, after all infrastructur…

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

As a side note, I find the language you are using strange. I do not know if it's my perspective of the world being different than yours, but I'll try to explain.

In my perspective, genocide is a very, very strong word. Hitler killed 6 million Jews, as he literally wanted them exterminated.

Now, crime is a crime, none should be defended nor downsized. But the primary goal behind that genocide was extermination. Do you claim that Russia is trying to exterminate Ukrainians? Or you are using it just to point out the war crimes that the Russian army is did?

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#535
post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

explain to you because you do not know, and wish to learn, and thus you are asking in good faith? or "explain", as in you think the majority of countries are not united in opposition to russia, and you would like to advance this claim? I want to be clear here, I am all for sharing knowledge, so if you need an explanation because you don't know, and don't just plan to argue, please say so and I will share all I can, w…

So you have no interest in explaining to me how EU countries (Germany etc) paying Russia for energy helps Ukraine? I'm quite serious, I don't know how paying Russia helps Ukraine, or are they not paying for energy? maybe I am ill informed. And please don't come back with misdirection, either answer the question or lets leave it like that because it's a waste of both our time.

Not the person you were originally responding to, but I would point out that originally the statement was about if everyone is united in opposition, why are we still buying fossil fuel from Russia.

This is not the same question as how it helps Ukraine, so I would be careful throwing around the word “misdirection”.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#536
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be fixed and meet all the demand for beef today? And without making people poor in the process? Perhaps the solution is a mix of both: eat less meat and only eat sustainably raise meat.

Grass-fed cows use more land and water than grain-fed cows. So no.

On other hand they can be grown where there is enough land and enough water... Just because parts of the world has lack of water doesn't mean there is lack everywhere. In many parts there is even enough rain.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US accrues enough "Oh, we don't talk to _those people_, we only sanction them" world states, they will encompass enough of the world's population to make it unreasonable for third parties to obey US sanctions, which they currently tend to (because the US sanctions transitively); and enough of the world's population to do things like replace SWIFT and/or drop the USD as their main reserve currency. (Also, there…

this seems like nebulous FUD that attempts to downplay that one of the actors here is literally engaging in a genocide will the world (NOT the U.S., as the opposition to Russia's genocidal war is global) accrue enough countries out of 200 or so which engage in genocidal invasions of conquest of their neighbors in the 21st century? sounds implausible

> is literally engaging in a genocide

You know, the US (and people who drink its kool-aid) has been leveling several such false accusations lately, another one being about the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. As a person whose family was decimated by genocide I'll tell you that it's quite insulting on the personal level; but beyond this - that kind of rhetoric has a "boy who cried wolf effect", and that's really bad.

You do not need the fabricated accusations to condemn Russia for war crimes and the killing of civilians in its invasion of the Ukraine.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, 5. Stop using private vehicles so much in favor of public transport + bicycles. Et voila, no more fuel shortage. ... of course, this is even more easier-said-than-done for the US :-(

Enclosed spaces with the general public in a still ongoing pandemic? Also: "In a recent survey, 99% of respondents felt everyone else should use public transit"

> Enclosed spaces with the general public in a still ongoing pandemic?

I'll concede that there's a point there. However - the world states with the best covid "performance" in terms of deaths/capita etc. have much better developed and widely used public transport systems.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#539
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please, stop this moral equivalency rhetoric this is not the U.S. opposing russia, but the world - literally the majority of all countries the rest of your post is whataboutism that fails to justify russia's genocidal war of territorial conquest against Ukraine and Ukrainians, both of which russia believes should not exist, period the world hears russia's farcical pretexts of "denazification" and recognizes it as a c…

If everyone is so united in opposition why are they still buying the oil and gas (paying in Rubles)? If they're so together why did Turkey block Sweden and Finland joining Nato. If the unifying petrodollar still binds us all why is Saudi considering Yuan. If they had any sort of plan that would save Ukrainians why is it taking months to enact?

If everyone is so united in opposition why are they still buying the oil and gas (paying in Rubles)?

Because we are dependent on it and despite opposition to Russia's war, our solidarity has limits. Limits which are a subject to internal debate and strive. Obviously you know this, which explains the other posters incredulity at the question, which is bound to be in bad faith.

If they're so together why did Turkey block Sweden and Finland joining Nato.

Probably because they see a way to get something they want. Probably not as a gesture towards Russia, since their own contribution to the war -- e.g. closing off the Black sea has been pretty effective.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do vegans rationalize owning pet animals?

I am a mere vegetarian but I justify it by aiming for generally better, not perfect. (Also I adopted my cat about a decade before I became a vegetarian, it doesn't seem morally superior to destroy her because I had a change of heart.)

I see. I eat meat and I know about the issues (health wise and environmentally). I’m trending towards less, largely for health reasons.

My ideal world (in my head) is that human beings don’t interfere with animals at all (to eat, as pets, to showcase). We should interfere in only cases where it’s critical (like a natural disaster treating animals).

Is there a word for this viewpoint?

Post reply on HN