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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#531

Post by notch656a »

eksx wrote: post #54

I work in tech with no college degree and about 9 years of programming experience. I make mid 100,000's per year. My S/O has 6 years of Emergency Department experience and a bachelors degree and she made about 65k at our local hospital. I think pay is an enormous factor in this. Her local hospital has nurses with less than 1 year of experience being preceptors to new grads.

How long did it take you to break 100k? Be sure to include those pre-employed years when you didn't even know what 'if' statement meant. A nurse can hit that in 6 years easy through BSN+NP, and that's starting at literally NOTHING. (Alternatively there's a like path for PAs to practice in a mid-level practitioner role that is comparable to NP in those same 6 years)

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#532

Post by GoodJokes »

tenpies wrote: post #497
soared wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without starting values and locations (COL) you can’t compare values in this way.

Canada is generally more expensive and taxes more (especially when you factor in sales taxes and such). To be honest, I am amazed that Canada has a healthcare system left. Decades of mismanagement and underinvestment aside, almost any Canadian healthcare worker can cross the border and instantly see a substantial pay bump and increase in QoL. I do imagine within the next 20 years, Canadian healthcare is going to look…

No post body was provided.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#533

Post by [deleted] »

mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#534

Post by jewayne »

marcusverus wrote: post #477
cowpig wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a "free market" for healthcare. The ability for consumers to exit a market is one of the prerequisites for the invisible hand effect. You can't exit the healthcare market.

You can't exit the food market, either, and yet there is clearly a thriving free market for food. How does your theory account for this?

45 million Americans are on the SNAP (food stamp) program. Does your definition of "thriving free market" account for this?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#535

Post by wcfields »

marcusverus wrote: post #477
cowpig wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a "free market" for healthcare. The ability for consumers to exit a market is one of the prerequisites for the invisible hand effect. You can't exit the healthcare market.

You can't exit the food market, either, and yet there is clearly a thriving free market for food. How does your theory account for this?

I think you're being purposefully obtuse, but here's why:

- SNAP / EBT / Foodstamps for people making so little money. Add onto that, Food banks.

- Farm subsidies for many cheap foodstuffs (Corn) causing massive cheap, albeit junk food that can sustain.

- I can literally grow food in the ground for "free", put it in mason jars and save my food for a year. I can't open a fresh can of broken-arm at the fixed cost.

- Food is fungible, if I'm hungry, I can wait 2, 3, 8+ hours to eat, or have a quick snack until meal time. It's not like I need a Big Mac infusion in the next 10 seconds or else I'll die from lack of special sauce.

- You have many options of food. You can eat Soylent, rice&beans, or steak for every meal at various price points. You don't really get an ala carte when it comes to Chemotherapy.

- You can always eat monkey pellets [1]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/moreplatesmoredates/comments/qbfkfl...

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#536

Post by r3trohack3r »

Anecdotally - I have an acquaintance exiting the field of pediatric nursing. They worked in the ICU and with chronic conditions (cancer, heart disease, etc.).

The deaths were always hard when working with little kids - and there were a couple a month. But towards the end of COVID they were losing 4 kids PER WEEK (anecdote - I have no data other than listening to them vent) that this nurse firmly believed were avoidable had they received appropriate care.

What caused them to exit was how the hospital handled COVID: they postponed all elective surgeries. For these children, an elective surgery was anything where they "wouldn't die tomorrow" if the surgery wasn't done (somewhat of an oversimplification - but ballpark correct).

During that time hearts got worse, cancer progressed, bodies shut down until electives became emergencies... Success rates of surgeries dropped. And once restrictions started lifting the staff was underwater, they had a huge backlog of "electives" piled up on top of the normal ingress - kids were dying from waiting.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#537

Post by m_ke »

phil21 wrote: post #17

While it's anecdote, every single peer in bedside medical care I know without exception has either left the field, or has immediate plans to as soon as student loan debt is repaid. The few older medical professionals in my family are simply sticking out the last few years until they can retire early. This was generally the case prior to pandemic due to how poor the work environment has become, but the pandemic seems…

My SO is a healthcare worker as well, she just graduated 2 years ago and has major regrets about her decision. She'd leave and try and do something else but she has mid 6 figure debt, to make things worse she was rear-ended her last year of school and has back issues that make it hard for her to handle the 12 hours shifts.

She's looking to switch jobs now and her first offer expected her to travel to locations deep in queens, manhattan and brooklyn, seeing on average 50 patients a day. She currently works at one of the largest hospital chains in NY and is now negotiating an offer from the other largest chain, initially she was told to not worry about salary and that they'd be able to match her previous offer, then HR called her and told her she had 1 and not 2 years of experience so the best offer they can offer her is lower than expected, she said she wouldn't be able to do it so the HR people went to check again to see what they can do and it turns out they called up the hospital that my SO works at now and checked their pay tiers and said they can only match the number that they were told. The new position was close to where we live so she considered taking it anyways but they just called her again and asked her if she'd be willing to travel to other locations multiple times a week to help fill in gaps (but weren't even able to tell her which locations before accepting the offer).

TLDR: don't let your friends and family go into healthcare

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#538

Post by ryanSrich »

To the surprise of absolutely no one who understands healthcare.

I have many friends and relatives that are nurses, MDs, and therapists.

Compensation is about as backwards as you can get. Seniority has no impact on your pay. Once you hit the ceiling you’ll never make more money. This is especially true for Nurses and therapists. Even if you switch jobs. The market rate is what you’re going to get paid (within 10%).

My wife is a PT and made 3x more traveling as a contract therapist than she did as a full time employee. Three times. That’s absolutely absurd.

Benefits are also beyond comical. Healthcare insurance costs for healthcare workers are higher and the benefits are worse than if you just bought Obamacare directly.

Beyond horrible pay with no upward mobility, you’ll also have to deal with completely disconnected management that has never done any clinical work in their lives. They’ll bitch and moan about saving money, and often enforce policies that put clinicians at risk of malpractice. All to save money.

So yeah. If I were to give any young people advice, it would be to stay as far away from healthcare as you can.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#539

Post by michael1999 »

sfteus wrote: post #495
mikemac wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with all of this, and just to add one thing: liability. Look at the RaDonda Vaught case or the Michelle Heughins case; terrifying to be looking at jail time for a med error. Many nurses are watching these cases more closely and deciding that since staffing isn't getting any better and they won't be protected, it's not worth the risk.

Married to an RN and absolutely sympathetic to the staffing/pay plight they're currently facing. I'm unfortunately not very familiar with the case of Michelle Heughins, but I've heard a lot of the RaDonda Vaught case. The high points of the case as I understand them: * Vaught stated her department was not understaffed, nor was she tired. The incident also occurred in 2017, so pre-pandemic * Vaught went to dispense Ve…

There's a big difference from revoking her license, and locking her in a cage for 3 years.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#540

Post by wcfields »

whimsicalism wrote: post #501
jerry1979 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't think the US can be summed up with a single word. Can I hire my friend who is a medical student to perform surgery on me legally? No?

> I don't think the US can be summed up with a single word.

I think it can, I've been thinking about this and it's "scam".

Like, think how often everything in our country is a straight up scam. Healthcare, parking tickets, basically anything you buy. It's almost all snake-oil flim-flam every which way and as a 'consumer' you have to wade through the mire every single day to get scammed as little as possible.

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