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Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

reuters.com

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Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#531

Post by crypot »

SmirthsDAC wrote: post #498
kif wrote: post #19

It's certainly interesting how an oppressed people became the oppressor.

An oppressed people - the Jews, have become oppressors? This comment doesn't even attempt to draw the distinction between the government of Israel and the Jewish people. How would it feel if we said “The formerly oppressed Hispanic people have become the oppressors”, because one country in Central or South America has an oppressive government at some point? There isn’t even recognition that the Israeli legislature mi…

What are you on about? Do you just randomly smash the keyboard?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#532

Post by nec4b »

DecentAI wrote: post #491
nec4b wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel would cease to exist if there was no Jewish majority anymore. Just one more Arab country instead. Would you be ok with that?

Yes! They can rightfully "go back" to where they came from, hows that sound?

They are where they came from. What do you mean?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#533

Post by starik36 »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #414
thatsmyfribble wrote: post #259

First of all, this isn't a ban on Israeli-Palestinian marriage, this is a restriction on the ability to gain citizenship through those marriages. I don't agree with that, but I do think it's important to clarify. Regarding comments I'm seeing here saying Israel is an apartheid state or that Israel is racist or that Israel the concept of a Jewish state is disgusting: Israel is the size of New Jersey. It is the only st…

Yes I do find the concept of a Jewish state disgusting. It leads to a theocracy. "The issue is that if citizenship is freely given, Jews become the minority in Israel and it is no longer a Jewish state" This can be easily resolved if Israel would define what it's borders are. But Israel does not in fact want to be a normal country it is run by religious extremists.

> It leads to a theocracy

And yet it hasn't. It's a democracy. Has been since the founding.

> run by religious extremists

It's run by whomever people of Israel elect. The purpose of this country is to protect the Jews from various pogroms and genocides that keep occurring to them with a disturbing regularity.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#534

Post by tut-urut-utut »

pthread_t wrote: post #39

So, 21% of Israel's population has restrictions on who they could marry all so that they can maintain a majority of the favored demographic. This is apartheid.

Don't people actually marry because they love each other, and not as a way to gain a favourable citizenship?

How the naturalization law prevents a marriage?

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#535

Post by dragonwriter »

gpt5 wrote: post #520
onedognight wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better example would be adding a non-Jew requirement to the US constitution. I find it interesting that a people who faced such deadly consequences from discrimination based on Jewishness choose to discriminate based on Jewishness as their response.

To be fair, this is exactly why they are doing it. This is coming out of the belief that the Jewish people need a Jewish refuge state based on the constant past consequences of not having one. If they didn’t control for their population, they’d need to decide between not being a Jewish state and not being democratic.

> This is coming out of the belief that the Jewish people need a Jewish refuge state based on the constant past consequences of not having one.

It's funny how the experience of being subjected to a racist, human -rights-disregarding ethnonationalist regime that engaged aggression based on a desire for historic ethnic territory and a desire for buffer space has provoked the creation of a racist, human-rights-disregarding, ethnonationalist regime that engages in aggression based on a desire for historic ethnic territory and buffer space.

Well, not “funny” as much as “tragically ironic”.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#536

Post by throwaway599281 »

twofornone wrote: post #420
pthread_t wrote: post #39

So, 21% of Israel's population has restrictions on who they could marry all so that they can maintain a majority of the favored demographic. This is apartheid.

Israel is surrounded by Arab Muslims who outnumber Jews 100:1 and are overtly hostile to Judaism, as prescribed by their religion. I ask honestly, is it really so wrong for a nation to implement laws to preserve its culture, particularly when it's people constitute a tiny fraction of the global population? Or is support of cultural preservation only virtuous when the alternative is labeled "gentrification"?

> and are overtly hostile to Judaism, as prescribed by their religion.

What does the Talmud say about the Goyim?

>is it really so wrong for a nation to implement laws to preserve its culture, particularly when it's people constitute a tiny fraction of the global population

It's ok, natural and healthy for Israel, but not for the rest of the world, where that is nationalism and equates to ideologies of the 1930s.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#537

Post by pthread_t »

pavelrub wrote: post #442
fredophile wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws that make it illegal to sleep under bridges apply to everybody, not just the homeless. Does that mean a law against sleeping under bridges is not targeting the homeless?

It targets people who sleep under bridges. If, for example, there is a major safety hazard associated with sleeping under bridges, it would make sense to prohibit it, and it would be bizarre to criticize the law just because it affects mostly homeless people. If, on the other hand, the law prohibits only homeless people from sleeping under bridges, it becomes clear that the intent is discriminatory, and this becomes…

“There’s no need to shirk from the essence of this law. It is one of the tools to ensure a Jewish majority in Israel, which is the nation-state of the Jewish people. Our goal is for there to be a Jewish majority,” Lapid tweeted shortly before the law lapsed in early July. [0]

[0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/months-after-citizenship-law-f...

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#538

Post by sempron64 »

codedokode wrote: post #441
sempron64 wrote: post #354

Consider the following word replacements. [Ukraine/Israel] is established as an ethnic state after the end of the [Soviet/British] regime. [Ukraine/Israel] passes laws to protect its language and national identity in the face of its neighboring [Russia/Arab states] [Ukraine/Israel] is persecuting its [Russian/Arab] minorities by enacting discriminatory laws. [Ukraine/Israel] does not recognize [DNR/Palestinian] state…

So-called "DNR" region of Ukraine was created with the help of Russian army. There was nothing similar to Israel-Palestine situation. So your analogy is wrong.

I’m not saying they have equivalent claims to legitimacy, or that siding with one equals siding with the other. I’m saying that the Israeli right wing views the PA as illegitimate.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#539

Post by lozenge »

borski wrote: post #497

Just to be clear: the law bans citizenship for Palestinians on the basis of marriage to an Israeli citizen, but does not ban marriages or naturalization in other ways that aren’t marriage, right? Or am I missing something here?

All weddings are Jewish in Israel so that would already prevent a Palestinian from marrying an Israeli. They can however marry in another country and Israel would recognise the marriage.

Re: Israel passes law denying naturalization to Palestinian spouses

#540

Post by snird »

jmyeet wrote: post #522

Israel is an apartheid state, a claim now explicitly made by Amnesty International [1]. Pick any number of highlights: - Denying citizenship to Palestinians (and other Muslims); - The Palestinian residence card system. Families that cannot be reunited because of it; - Population quotas in Jerusalem. Palestinians who have it and leave to, say, go to college will be deemed to have abandoned their residency to maintain…

False.

Israeli government has Arab list in it, with Arab ministers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Arab_List

Not the parliament - the government itself. This is by definition not an apartheid state.

This law denying citizenship is to block a loophole used by known terrorists to come into Israel and explode Jews on busses. Here are some examples for you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_HaSharon_Mall_suicide_bom... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sbarro_restaurant_suicide_bomb...

Why should Israelis allow a terrorist loophole in? Would you allow a way for terrorists to kill you and your family in your home country? I didn't think so.

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