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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#531

Post by lordnacho »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #530
lordnacho wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? So for instance I could just pay myself double this year and nothing next year from my personal corporation, and my kid would somehow pass as having a low income parent? Surely you have to count things like dividends, income in previous years, assets... Failing that just make it clear that you know when you're tricking the system and fingers will be pointed.

Nope, FASFA doesn’t even look at previous years, you could be poor now and not later as far as they are concerned. We could do a lot more research into each families situation but that’s a lot of time,effort, and probably very expensive. You could also get married young and hide it.

> You could also get married young and hide it.

What's the significance of that?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#532

Post by bradlys »

fallingknife wrote: post #524
bradlys wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that isn't an argument against what I said, right? Like, at all. It completely supports what I said.

You said: > If you make it so that only “merit” is considered - you’re only gonna get rich kids. He said: > The merit-based school such as Styuvesant in NYC and Lowell in SF are both filled with rather poor Asian kids. > The demographic profile of these two schools are substantially lower income than the very expensive cities they reside in. It couldn't possibly be further from supporting what you said.

Since people here are often ESL. I'll put it this way: "English is a rich language."

Please try to think about how the context of what I said could be interpreted. If you take literally everything at face value - you're truly not thinking critically about anything.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#533

Post by rayiner »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #357
rayiner wrote: post #311

I attended TJ, back when it was about 30% Asian. I’ve always felt like the school should do more to get more underrepresented minorities. I’ve found the recent efforts very off-putting however. It’s based on a modern strain of social justice ideology that adopts some very ugly assumptions about Asians. I’m reminded of Alison Collins in San Francisco, who called Asians “house n—-ers” and said they use “white supremaci…

> It consisted of going to some Indian dude’s house for an hour every Saturday for a summer. If that’s a game changer what does that say about American K-8 math education? Ironically, this is scouting round a theory I have long espoused – the failure of American K-8 math education has nothing to do with teaching , and everything to do with culture . Sure, going to some Indian dude's house every Saturday for a summer…

I’ll quibble: paying teachers $200,000 an hour wouldn’t solve the problem. Doing well at math just takes memorization and practice, and Americans just think that’s beneath them.

And test prep is fine. For the most part, it’s teaching you intuition about numbers, vocabulary, and logical reasoning skills. I’d much rather my kid drill SAT questions than study half the stuff in the school curriculum these days.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#534

Post by rayiner »

alistairSH wrote: post #414
quadrifoliate wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It consisted of going to some Indian dude’s house for an hour every Saturday for a summer. If that’s a game changer what does that say about American K-8 math education? Ironically, this is scouting round a theory I have long espoused – the failure of American K-8 math education has nothing to do with teaching , and everything to do with culture . Sure, going to some Indian dude's house every Saturday for a summer…

- Your family bothered enough to think about sending you there, rather than spending time keeping up with the Joneses for the latest model of garden sprinkler - Your family quietly put down one thousand(!) dollars towards additional education instead of complaining about the schooling endlessly over $15 bottomless mimosas on Saturday You really think economically disadvantaged families are sitting around sipping mimo…

His analogy was sound. When we’re talking about these elite schools, we’re talking about competition within the middle to upper middle class. The median income of every racial group in Fairfax County, for example, is $100,000-150,000. The most underrepresented group at TJ is actually white people, who have the highest median income.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#535

Post by lazide »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #379
lazide wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re too successful as a group and it makes everyone else look bad (near as I can tell)

I think it is "their community is not continuing to suffer the problems of lack of success and achievement that other minorities are."

6 of one, half dozen of another.

Have you ever worked at a place where you were doing (objectively) well, perhaps by introducing new tech, or optimizing existing processes, or even just because you were working your ass off, but your coworkers were angry because they weren’t doing so well and you were causing problems for them?

If so, was that healthy? Did it serve the companies (or long term groups) interests?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#536

Post by rayiner »

Miner49er wrote: post #345
sokoloff wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can’t wrap my head around an argument that amounts to “that person only succeeded on the test because they put in the time and effort to learn the material and their hard work is the primary thing that separated their performance from this other person; if that other person would have tried, they could have done just as well; that’s not a meritocracy!”

It's pretty simple. A lot of kids don't have an opportunity to put in the time and effort. Some of them still do well despite this, and that shows they have great potential if given the opportunity. Taking life challenges and starting points into account is more of a meritocracy, because you are accounting for the difficulty they had to get to where they are. For example, say you have two kids with the same high SAT…

If the concern is about the kid who has to work a job to support a family, then by all means reserve slots for economically disadvantaged kids. But for the most part that’s not who we’re talking about. The median household income among underrepresented minority groups in the TJ attendance area is solidly middle class. Similarly, most of the racial gerrymandering at universities is targeted at underrepresented minorities from middle and upper middle class families, often affluent African immigrants.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#537

Post by panda88888 »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #526
rmah wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rich white/asian kid from NYC" I've seen this sort of characterization a lot here. I can understand it, but it doesn't really reflect reality. I don't know a lot about other areas, but in NYC, most asians are not "wealthy". Far from it, Asians in NYC have a substantially lower median income ($53k household, $25k per capita) than whites ($69k household, $50k per capita ). More importantly, the asian kids being discri…

See "rich" as in not poor. You can't shutdown the primary reasoning of my argument and downshift it to your point. My main point was poverty and location, I really don't even give a fuck about your race. The biggest problem in this country is delineated by who has money and who doesn't. That is the 90% problem, not race.

If your main point was poverty and location, adding race to the description certainly doesn’t help especially with the poor minority vs rich white/Asian angle.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#538

Post by panda88888 »

tootie wrote: post #373
actuator wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what affirmative action will look like. If you want to see the context of such an action happening somewhere for long time, take the example of India. There it is much more explicit and written in the law. For some subjects, the criteria it takes for one cohort to get admission in the top college is the same one in which the other cohort will not even get admission in any college in the top 20. You can see th…

The argument isn't against Asians, it's in favor of other groups.

So it is ok to favor whites over Asians?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#539

Post by aiisjustanif »

jpgvm wrote: post #386
Lascaille wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Australia gets by just fine with standardized testing only, don't see why America can't as well. Because when the results align along racial boundaries and votes (and therefore power) can be won by 'combating' that 'discrimination' policies follow accordingly.

What? If you think standardized testing is benefiting white/rich Australians you are horrendously mistaken. Asian Australians disproportionally destroy the affluent white Australian population on standardized tests as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder. As a result they have priority access to medicine and law degrees, again, as they fucking should. If someone is going to work harder for so…

Just because Asian Australians do better on standardized testing does not mean white/rich Australians do not benefit more from it. The population size of each percentile and distribution across percentiles also matter. White identifying students can represent a larger distribution in the top percentile ranges overall [1]. > as they fucking should because they prepare more and work harder.

Working harder does not increase population size or influence necessarily.

> If someone is going to work harder for something they simply deserve it, that is all there is to it.

Not all jobs, responsibilities, careers, political representation, the list goes on.. are based on merit or even hard work. Their is definitely an element of luck and survivorship bias.

Standardized tests are also bias. They are biased toward individuals who are representative of the typical test-taking participant in background, who have more test-specific preparation beyond ability, and toward individuals who are more familiar and skilled with standardized test-taking in general.

Also grouping all Asians together as a group that represents what you may think is ridiculous, the cultural differences between Chinese, Indian, and Vietnamese cultures are very different.

[1] www.brookings.edu/research/race-gaps-in-sat-scores-highligh t-inequality-and-hinder-upward-mobility/

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#540

Post by rayiner »

donatj wrote: post #411
rayiner wrote: post #311

I attended TJ, back when it was about 30% Asian. I’ve always felt like the school should do more to get more underrepresented minorities. I’ve found the recent efforts very off-putting however. It’s based on a modern strain of social justice ideology that adopts some very ugly assumptions about Asians. I’m reminded of Alison Collins in San Francisco, who called Asians “house n—-ers” and said they use “white supremaci…

I was with you right up to > But it’s a few thousand dollars if that (as low as under $1,000) which is reachable to all but destitute families. Selling my blue collar parents on $1,000 to slightly improve my chances of getting into a slightly better school so I could spend even more money? That’s absolutely not happening. I’d have gotten a pat on the back and told there’s no shame in community college. I think you mi…

Well there is a reason why a quarter of Asian kids who grow up poor end up in the top 20% as adults, versus only 10% of white kids.
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