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Web3? I have my DAOts

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Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#531

Post by peoplefromibiza »

ThomPete wrote: post #519
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. how? it's all based on cryptographic keys, if I stole the keys, how can blockchain block me, without someone intervening?

You are answering your own question by asking the wrong one. This is only a problem if it's in fact enforcable. There are many ways to solve the stealing among others multisig.

you're not answering the question though.

the only thing the system can do is ask more and more from their users, but there is no way to know if the transaction is good: if it looks good, it is good.

so it can't enforce anything on its own.

a CC payment can look good, but it can be reversed because there other other channels, outside of the CC circuit, to prove those transactions are to be considered fraudulent.

There is no such mechanism in the crypto space, so basically they are good unless you have an issue that can't be solved by the chain itself.

Because the chain can't enforce anything.

p.s. note that I wrote the keys (plural) not the key (singular)

basically your answer is "have a multifactor authentication" but if that is broken by some malevolent actor, I can go to the police.

There's not true fro Cryptos, if they are stolen they are lost.

nothing you can do about it, except begging

https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7dv4a/hacked-cryptocurrency...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#532

Post by vvpan »

dmitriid wrote: post #316
vvpan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguments about blockchain here on HN are frustrating. There are plenty of good examples of where it works very well but the mental gymnastic people go through to deny the obvious are incredible. The most basic to me is the Automatic Market Maker system. For example Uniswap is a system with only a few (relatively speaking) lines of a code at its core and a team of a couple of dozen. The system does billions of dollar…

> There are plenty of good examples of where it works And yet, no one can provide even a single one that - doesn't already exist, and works more efficiently without blockchain, or - doesn't require blockchain for any of the claimed properties and advantages - isn't relying on circular references

Did you read my comment? AMM's were impossible without blockchain. And they are more efficient than real-world counterparts.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#533

Post by grey-area »

Joeboy wrote: post #480
grey-area wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, tens of billions of dollars, not trillions, my mistake. They are currently adding 1 billion a day at times, where does that money come from? Does anyone really believe 78,423,306,967 USD are currently invested in Tether?

I don't know anything about anything, but I see Wikipedia says Tether is 65% "backed by commercial paper". Which as far as I can tell basically means IOUs, but IOUs that are considered somewhat legit. It definitely seems questionable, but I'm not really sure how to assess how bad it is or isn't. 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_(cryptocurrency) Edit: I see elsewhere somebody saying "nobody in the commercial pa…

Their commercial paper would make them one of the largest players in the global market if their numbers were true, but nobody knows what they have invested in, they say it is in crypto as well (eek!), they've been found guilty of fraud multiple times, including faking assets by using temporary bank transfers, and the amounts we're talking about make it very hard to believe they could function at that scale without making lots of noise in the global commercial paper market.

So basically, like most other things they say, it's simply not credible.

https://www.ft.com/content/342966af-98dc-4b48-b997-38c008042...

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#534

Post by grey-area »

ThomPete wrote: post #521
grey-area wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. The rules can (and have) been changed by whoever has commit permissions on the repo, they are not immutable. 2. The rules can also be changed with a simple fork if enough users are persuaded to move (Bitcoin Cash) - and somehow the price of both is preserved (how? why? who benefits?). 3. The price is provided by unaudited exchanges and can be manipulated by manipulating linked assets and collusion with exchanges,…

1) The rules about the 21Million which is the only thing that matters here can't be changed. 2) Again there is a reason why Bitcoin Cash is a fraction of BTCs value it's not the same. 3) Everything can be manipulated. You go and see how Soros did that in the 90es. But again that's not the measurement here. It can't be changed. It's been a house waiting to collapse for 12 years now. Maybe you should ask yourself what…

The rules about the 21Million which is the only thing that matters here can't be changed.

What would stop it being changed?

It's been a house waiting to collapse for 12 years now.

Tether has only been trading since 2015 and only prominent the last few years. Other cryptocurrencies have seen multiple bubbles and collapses. The thing that would convince me personally is that all the get-rich-quick marks and scammers leave the space and people start using it for actually useful things like payments.

Unfortunately distributed consensus with a global public ledger is particularly badly suited to payments or a currency, though it seems well structured for a ponzi scheme.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#535

Post by easrng »

ssss11 wrote: post #394
xmprt wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked into some of the engineering that goes into Web3, and while I'm incredibly impressed, I can't quite shake the feeling that all we're doing is getting really good at counting paperclips. What real world problems does Web3 solve? It seems like Web3 has a ton of great solutions to problems that Web3 creates. Most problems that Web3 claim to solve can be solved through non blockchain solutions and even decent…

The internet is not decentralised name one application or website which does not require a server in the middle between two clients. Edit: but I agree there are already ways Web3 things can be done, and decentralization can be done without blockchain - the question I think is whether this impressive engineering is better than the existing ways

BitTorrent.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#536

Post by captn3m0 »

ssss11 wrote: post #394
xmprt wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked into some of the engineering that goes into Web3, and while I'm incredibly impressed, I can't quite shake the feeling that all we're doing is getting really good at counting paperclips. What real world problems does Web3 solve? It seems like Web3 has a ton of great solutions to problems that Web3 creates. Most problems that Web3 claim to solve can be solved through non blockchain solutions and even decent…

The internet is not decentralised name one application or website which does not require a server in the middle between two clients. Edit: but I agree there are already ways Web3 things can be done, and decentralization can be done without blockchain - the question I think is whether this impressive engineering is better than the existing ways

BitTorrent? BGP? SMTP?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#537

Post by lottin »

darkFunction wrote: post #511
lottin wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is massive utility in a trustless, permissionless, censorship-resistant contract layer connecting disparate centralised entities. No, there's no utility in that, if ultimately enforcement relies on an entity that needs to be trusted and can override the blockchain. > A centrally managed registry would never be suitable for this task for a multitude of obvious reasons. Centrally-managed registries are already…

> what on earth are you talking about? I'm talking about a global, universal API layer supporting standardised contract enforcement and value transfer between applications. A centralised implementation of this would clearly be a bad idea. If you don't see utility in this I don't know what to tell you.

> I'm talking about a global, universal API layer supporting standardised contract enforcement and value transfer between applications.

What does that even mean? How is a global API going to support the enforcement of a rental agreement? Or of a bond indenture? Who is actually going to enforce the contract? And what is the role of a global API in that? And what do you mean value transfer between applications? You want to transfer "value" (like a bag of rice?) between computer programs??? None of that makes the slightest sense. Meaningless gibberish intended to fool gullible idiots into thinking that blockchains are some kind of disruptive technology that is going to turn everything upside down. Nonsense. It's a pump & dump scheme, and little else.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#538

Post by captn3m0 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #59
serverholic wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sign-In with Ethereum" will be huge. I purposefully avoid "Sign-in with Google" because putting too much power in a centralized authority terrifies me. I'd much rather have the convenience of "Sign-In with X" but backed by something I have control over.

What is the difference between "Sign-in with Ethereum" and the signature-based auth that has been available for decades without blockchains?

Isn’t sign in with U2F exactly the same guarantees and issues? (Cryptographically proven pseudonymous identities, but no recourse if you lose your keys)

Why does ethereum need to come into the picture?

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#539

Post by Ygg2 »

kranke155 wrote: post #520
Ygg2 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Biggest wrong take in crypto is - we can solve societal problem with fancy algorithm.

that has been a common problem with tech utopians, and not one I'm personally interested in. Tech doesn't change society for the better automatically, but it can create incentives in the right direction. Are we really saying a world prior to the printing press was better? What about before freely available information online a la wikipedia? No way.

What good incentive does crypto bring? It incentivizes black market tendency and money laundering.

Also printing press didn't consume so much resources, for so little gain.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#540

Post by brightstep »

jagermo wrote: post #409

So, what I don't understand: Why would companys use it? For example "Twitter can censor any account or tweet" (its not censorship, but that is another can of worms). vs "Web3 tweets would be uncensorable". Why should Twitter give up control? Why would they want someone to use their platform to publish stuff they can't delete or hide (for example, a live-stream of someone shooting up a mosque)? Why would any of the bi…

This is the big question most "web3" proponents miss or ignore. They want a decentralized internet to combat the power of FAANG, governments, etc. But those powers will _never_ allow a technology to succeed if it meaningfully threatens their power.
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