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Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

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Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#531

Post by s7r »

danShumway wrote: post #249
s7r wrote: post #121

In terms of "antithetical values", the machine learning project ml5js.org actually did something about this. They bound their open-source license to a Code of Conduct¹, which forbids the use of their ML software for (1) discriminating against marginalized communities, (2) building tools that disingenuously manipulate public opinion, (3) building tools of mass surveillance and prediction to repress the rights of peopl…

> open-source license to a Code of Conduct Just a minor note, a license that works this way can't be accurately described as Open Source. It's more accurate to say that ml5.js is an Ethical Source license. See https://ethicalsource.dev/ for more details. I'm sure this is a name that will get debated as it becomes more common. But personally, speaking just as an outside observer I really like the name Ethical Source.…

Well said, I didn't mean to misconstrue! Thanks for sharing this information and vocabulary. Indeed, Ethical Source does seem to be quite communicative. It also probably provides enough of a signal, when it comes to choosing licenses, if a decision-maker has some level of self-awareness. (e.g. If I feel my project doesn't have a problem meeting an "Ethical" standard, I'll feel comfortable choosing Ethical Source. Otherwise, I'll choose Open Source.)

It could also be a signal to end-users, community members, customers, and other stakeholders as well — who may prefer technologies built with Ethical Source, as compared to Open Source, which seems like it could be similar to patterns we see in the real world around "Fair Trade" and "Ethically Sourced" etc.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#532

Post by Sebb767 »

nuerow wrote: post #491
Sebb767 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unbounded tolerance is how free and open societies commit suicide and succumb to authoritarian regimes where intolerance is the norm. And to allow discriminating against "wrong" opinions is how intolerance becomes the norm.

> And to allow discriminating against "wrong" opinions is how intolerance becomes the norm. Do you feel that plotting to overthrow a democracy to install a totalitarian despot while discussing political assassinations is a grey area that's up for debate whether it's "wrong" or indeed undoubtedly wrong? I mean, considering how this very same political group killed police officers during their coup attempt, where do yo…

Obviously that's a hard question with no perfect solution. That being said, I don't think _talking_ about something should be illegal. You and I talking about how to assassinate someone shouldn't be enough to put us away for years. Doing something or attempting to do something is where I draw the line.

Now, of course, I see the problem of letting people freely talk about killing people, overthrowing the government or running concentration camps. But forbidding this kind of speech is not going to prevent it if the pull is strong enough; even worse, it's going to strengthen their narrative about oppression. Instead, it should be possible to openly discuss why this is wrong. To understand why someone has an opinion and showing him why that trade-off is not worth it is far better than trying to forbid even thinking about it.

Now, I know that our action prevention might need some form of surveillance to prevent radical groups from taking actions and, at its worst, might fail to prevent some unnecessary violence. In my opinion, though, we can have much more freedom and maybe even prevent more people from radicalizing than by trying to censor wrong thoughts.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#533

Post by [deleted] »

ModernMech wrote: post #390
macinjosh wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No elections will be trusted by either side after that happens. This is the Democrats fault. Their shoe-in candidate lost and they spent four years bleating that Trump was illegitimate and failed to prove it with a far reaching investigation. _That_ is where trust started to be lost.

The Muller report and Senate Report on Russian Active Measures (I posted links earlier, but you've already read them I assume: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29080495 ) show that Trump and Russians coordinated efforts, made secret deals, delivered on quid pro quo arrangements, and yes even shared information during the 2016 election. And they lied about it all, destroyed evidence, and obstructed the investigati…

[deleted]

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#534

Post by macinjosh »

ModernMech wrote: post #390
macinjosh wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No elections will be trusted by either side after that happens. This is the Democrats fault. Their shoe-in candidate lost and they spent four years bleating that Trump was illegitimate and failed to prove it with a far reaching investigation. _That_ is where trust started to be lost.

The Muller report and Senate Report on Russian Active Measures (I posted links earlier, but you've already read them I assume: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29080495 ) show that Trump and Russians coordinated efforts, made secret deals, delivered on quid pro quo arrangements, and yes even shared information during the 2016 election. And they lied about it all, destroyed evidence, and obstructed the investigati…

Sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theories to me. If it was so awful why didn’t the FBI do anything about it? Because it was a big nothing-burger.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#535

Post by foxhop »

gambiting wrote: post #306
foxhop wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a license of your own you are so ready to protect that you would toss out the baby with the bath water?

Let me flip this around - do you believe that things like licences, copyright, perhaps even legality of material posted shouldn't matter at all on this "permacomputer"? Reading your page it's clear you want to go back to the "good old days" of internet - which is admirable, in a sort of romantic way. It is hacker news after all. But yes, if I made some software, and I found you were using it without a licence, I'd de…

I know you are wrong. I don't think you have anything of value to protect with license. You can't sue a person for creating software, you'll have to go after the person hosting. My view is the correct view and the only view which will have any permenence on this planet. Good luck with your licenses.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#536

Post by account42 »

rsynnott wrote: post #298
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have an obligation and in theory (and only in theory) it doesn't matter but a history of doing it anyway sure as shit helps in court.

Go to YouTube. You will find lots of old BBC stuff; the BBC largely doesn’t bother with active enforcement for anything before 1980 or so. Now, start a website selling Doctor Who episodes, and see how far your incomplete enforcement argument gets you with the court.

That is still consistent enforcement of the Doctor Who copyrights though.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#537

Post by account42 »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #208
h2odragon wrote: post #14

This (possible but technically not yet a) license violation has gotten more press for OSS licenses and enforcement than anything before, I think. Certainly more press than the Vizio thing, which will actually impact a lot more people if anything comes of it.

Amazon violating open source agreements to host their own version of the product and squeeze the life out of the original company? Not a peep. People whose political opinions differ from my own use the software? This must be stopped at once .

Which open source agreements has Amazon violated?

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#538

Post by gambiting »

foxhop wrote: post #535
gambiting wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me flip this around - do you believe that things like licences, copyright, perhaps even legality of material posted shouldn't matter at all on this "permacomputer"? Reading your page it's clear you want to go back to the "good old days" of internet - which is admirable, in a sort of romantic way. It is hacker news after all. But yes, if I made some software, and I found you were using it without a licence, I'd de…

I know you are wrong. I don't think you have anything of value to protect with license. You can't sue a person for creating software, you'll have to go after the person hosting. My view is the correct view and the only view which will have any permenence on this planet. Good luck with your licenses.

>>my view is the correct view and the only view which will have any permenence on this planet

And that's a fantastic view to keep when trying to discuss anything, really keeping that mind open eh? Good luck with your project.

>> I don't think you have anything of value to protect with license.

You are wrong(hey, two can play this game)

>> You can't sue a person for creating software,

Sure, but that's not what I said, so you're making a point just for its own sake.

Also I kinda hoped you'd answer my question if you think any licences/copyright/legality don't matter on your permacomputer. But then you haven't even answered my other comment, so meh, maybe I expected too much.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#539

Post by ModernMech »

macinjosh wrote: post #534
ModernMech wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Muller report and Senate Report on Russian Active Measures (I posted links earlier, but you've already read them I assume: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29080495 ) show that Trump and Russians coordinated efforts, made secret deals, delivered on quid pro quo arrangements, and yes even shared information during the 2016 election. And they lied about it all, destroyed evidence, and obstructed the investigati…

Sounds like a bunch of conspiracy theories to me. If it was so awful why didn’t the FBI do anything about it? Because it was a big nothing-burger.

There's no theory presented here, just a list of things that happened according to the Special Counsel and Congress. There's no mystery about what went on, and yeah, it's also clear that no one cares. Because that's the world we live in now, and I'm okay with that. But let's just be clear about where we are right now: a campaign for President coordinated with a foreign power as that power was hacking the campaign's opponent in the election, and they lied about it to everyone. That's okay behavior now, because as you said, the FBI did nothing. The Attorney General read the report I linked to and concluded the behavior was perfectly normal. But that doesn't make the charges of Russian collusion a "lie", as some have spun the results of those investigations. If Trump's campaign handing internal campaign data to Russian intelligence officers isn't collusion, the word has lost all meaning.

I mean, this isn't even the product of some partisan hit job on Trump. This is the result of two Republican-led investigations. One, led by a fmr Republican FBI director appointed by a Republican deputy AG, who in turn was appointed by Trump himself; the other written by the Republican majority and chaired Senate Intel committee. It's really easy to dismiss this as a "conspiracy theory" or "witch hunt" as the then President tried very hard to call it, but Republicans and Democrats both agree on the facts in these reports. They are not lies. They are not conspiracy theories. And yes, they are also a nothing-burger, because the behavior is now normalized. That's how presidential campaigns will be run from here on out basically thanks to this whole issue, and no one should be surprised when Democrats do it.

Re: Trump’s new social media platform found using Mastodon code

#540

Post by knowfilter »

fdschoeneman wrote: post #528
knowfilter wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point, because similar cases have been brought against Vizio and Tesla, among other, this clearly isn't just posturing.

Brought by mastodon and against Vizio and Tesla? Or by some other entity with a similar license?

Mastodon has not sued anyone. Vizio and Tesla have both run afoul of similar GPL licensing and been called out by the same organization (SFC) that's calling out Truth Social.

So like you said, this is clearly not just posturing, Truth Social is legitimately in violation of their license agreement.

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