China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week • Hacker News Board

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#531

Post by ecf » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

namelessoracle wrote: post #7

I have mixed feelings about this. Younger me learned a lot of problem solving skills and most importantly spent a lot of time learning how to read by playing RPGs and games that required lots of reading. My reading skills would not have been as advanced if i wasn't playing text heavy games that had a lot of plot like Square Enix games and the CRPGs of the time. Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as a…

> Modern games though are clearly designed to get you as addicted as possible and to play as long as possible…

The de-facto example of this nowadays is World of a Warcraft.

For those unaware, WoW charges you $15 per month play, as well as $60 every two years for the latest expansion.

This has resulted in a company that designs every last detail to be completed at the pace they determine to be correct, with a “story cliffhanger” at the end of each patch.

An applicable quote from one of the largest WoW content creators goes along the lines of “WoW used to be a game that made you want to waste your time. Now it’s a game that simply waste your time.”

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#532

Post by pphysch » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:08 PM UTC

wildwex wrote: post #473

The State should recognize that the responsibility begins with the Parents. If the State wants to promote a level of guidance that aligns with some common sense, then provide information/advice/recommendations to Parents on how to manage their children's growth. Mandates are a draconian move when you've lost control.

> Mandates are a draconian move when you've lost control.

Mandates are only enforceable if you have control in the first place, so your reasoning is backwards.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#533

Post by nightfly » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

pageandrew wrote: post #447

staunch wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Temporary and mild authoritarian measures during a once-in-a-century pandemic make complete sense, even to very libertarian people. The U.S. has a track record of such measures being temporary, such as the much more extreme measures taken during WW2. Comparing this kind of thing to what China is doing is drawing a false equivalency. There is no legitimate comparison to be made.

Temporary? We're a year and a half in, with no end in sight. If the vaccines weren't the end game, there is no end game. Indefinite public health authoritarianism. Mild? Australians can't travel more than 5km from their homes. For essential purposes only. Vaccinated Australians can only leave their homes for 2 hours a day (unvaxed 1 hour a day).

I mean, delta changed the math of how effective the vaccine was at preventing spread and mild illness. This is why the idea of a _novel_ coronavirus epidemic was bad, we had no idea where it was gonna go.

In Oregon we were on a very bad trajectory in the last two weeks with hospitals full and "elective" medical procedures suspended in some areas (my family being directly effected by this), that is now being deflected a bit by the renewed mask mandate. And in America we're very fortunate with how easy access we have to vaccines, other places aren't as lucky so they have to enact harsher measures...

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#534

Post by jpambrun » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

rank0 wrote: post #402

jpambrun wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol pretty much universally prohibited for minors and nobody calls that authoritarian. Governments have responsibility for the wellbeing of citizen, even against themselves (mandatory seatbelts comes to mind). Meanwhile, gaming addiction can also be very destructive.

Lots of others ITT are expressing the same view, and I understand the logic behind it. Alcohol is an addictive, psychoactive, carcinogen. The difference between drugs and “online game time” is pretty stark from my perspective. The essence of your argument seems to be: “we already give up some control for other health-related regulations and online game time is no different.” I have to admit, drawing the exact line is…

This line is indeed hard to define. I am not sure that such a limit would be enforceable even in China. However, it will have the side effect of making time gated games and other addicting dark patterns illegal or impractical, which it probably a net good thing.

To your last question, many jurisdictions are making fast food or sugary drinks illegal thus imposing a diet. I am fine with that. Some company are lowering health premium to those who do exercise, imposing exercise. I am fine with that too..

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#535

Post by hjek » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

SnowProblem wrote: post #477

Like many other commentors here, I grew up playing primarily skill-based video games, like Legend of Zelda, RollerCoaster Tycoon, Counter-Strike, StarCraft. It was wanting to make these games that led me to become a software developer. But games were different. Even a game like Pokemon, which has a few loot-box mechanics, was only mildly addicting. The first game I remember being extremely addicting was World of Warc…

> But games were different.

They were, and I wonder why. If you run some open source 16-bit gaming console emulator, you also know that there won't be in-game purchases, because it just wasn't a possibility. Perhaps it was a technological sweet spot that limited capitalist exploitation within video games?

The games still had ethical issues then, like, it's actually difficult to find non-violent games. Even Zelda is addictive in its immersiveness and the game mechanics rely a lot on assaulting baddies.

> The first game I remember being extremely addicting was World of Warcraft. It became a habit to simply click the icon as soon as the desktop loaded,

This is interesting to read, that you as a ex-gameaholic disagree with this law. I wonder whether it could really be the forces that are moving game development (as in money, as in capitalism) that are the real problem because they profit from creating addiction, rather than computer games as such. One can only wonder what computer games would look like in a world not dominated by neoliberalism, and whether a healthier game development model is possible?

I am reminded of this longer comment that was removed from the Godot source code recently:

> A capitalist oligarchy runs the world and forces us to consume in order to keep the gears of this rotten society on track. As such, the biggest market for video game consumption today is the mobile one. It is a market of poor souls forced to compulsively consume digital content in order to forget the misery of their everyday life, commute, or just any other brief free moment they have that they are not using to produce goods or services for the ruling class.

From https://github.com/godotengine/godot-docs/commit/b872229427d...

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#536

Post by pphysch » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

sergiotapia wrote: post #502

solox3 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could try reading a book, learning a new skill, or socializing.

That's not how it works for the majority of bored kids with raging hormones.

In functioning societies with functioning economies, it certainly does work that way.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#537

Post by doomleika » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

bigbob2 wrote: post #511

Really strange decision to make in the middle of a pandemic. You would think they would be encouraging activities which enable social distancing, not banning them.

COVID have been under control for a long time in CN, there’s lambda outbreak here and there, but most of them are eliminated fast. Giant exhibition have been hold for more than a year now. And CN is getting kids back to school

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#538

Post by Spivak » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #520

> Gaming companies will be barred from providing services to minors in any form outside the stipulated hours and must ensure they have put real-name verification systems in place, said the regulator, which oversees the country's video games market. Those critical of the Chinese government should take a look in the mirror. Governments around the world, including those in the US, routinely impose restrictions on minors…

You're ignoring the huge cultural differences. Completely seriously, what do you think the endgame is for the Chinese government?

In the US there's always the suspicion of ulterior motives because that's how our government is structured. The Chinese gov't doesn't have to bother. They don't need a foothold, they can just do it.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#539

Post by azernik » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

hjek wrote: post #199

lnyng wrote: post #110

Original notice from the government: https://web.archive.org/web/20210830120201/http://www.nppa.g... Google translation of the first entry: > Strictly limit the time for providing online game services to minors. Since the implementation of this notice, all online game companies can only provide minors with one-hour online game services from 20 to 21:00 on Friday, Saturday, Sunday and legal holidays. At other times, i…

So it's not just 3 hours per week, it's three specific hours a week , but also only for online games services. It's interesting that the law covers the service , not the client . Now, I wonder what qualifies as an online game service . If I play correspondence chess over email, would the email host be running an online game service? If someone modifies the Battle of Wesnoth network code to run over IRC messages, woul…

It's impossible to regulate clients - there are too many of them, and they're under direct physical control of minors who are opposed to the regs.

In this as in many things, big central institutions are much easier for a state to work with.

Re: China has forbidden under-18s from playing games for more than three hours/week

#540

Post by pphysch » Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

jayd16 wrote: post #184

Haven't we been through at least two generations of ubiquitous video games in the west? Is society noticeably different?

Sexual inactivity among males 22-35 has skyrocketed since the late 00s when social media and online games started getting really big. From ~7% to ~14% [1]. Similar explosion in depression/self-harm among both sexes.

[1] - https://ifstudies.org/blog/male-sexlessness-is-rising-but-no...