Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#531

Post by ostenning » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #491

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

But how much of this is due to Western nations essentially outsourcing emissions to China by shifting manufacturing etc. there? The per-capita emissions are important because countries with high per-capita emissions likely have a lot of low-hanging fruit. I mean reducing per-capita emissions in the USA could be done by improving public transport etc. whereas in China it would likely be condemning millions of people t…

This is a big factor. China for example has excellent fabrication and assembly services for PCBs. Does anyone know any services in the West that compete with the likes of JLCPCB?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#532

Post by nradov » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:53 PM UTC

jcfrei wrote: post #489

headmelted wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A 200% value-added tax on fossil fuels that rises by 10% every year would provide the capital. EDIT: To clarify, this is not a suggestion to raise capital from the tax as much as it's to raise capital from the use of fossil fuels. It's a suggestion for an increasingly punitive financial cost to force behavioural changes.

That's not going to work. A lot of people (and industries) rely on cars to do their jobs. It's a lot of low-income households who rely most on cars because they live in remote areas due to housing costs and have to commute to city centers to find work. Such a tax would cause a huge backlash in large parts of the population in any country and the government who enacts it would be quickly disbanded. We need subsidies t…

That's why to be politically viable any carbon emissions tax would have to be phased in gradually over many years. That would give people adequate time to adjust their lifestyles and purchase more efficient vehicles. The average car in the US is 12 years old so the phase in period has to be longer than that.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#533

Post by verytrivial » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:53 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #528

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn’t Musk the climate change guy you are looking for. He’s done more to advance the cause of sustainable energy than perhaps anyone.

He gives electric transportation and storage with one hand, and takes away with the promise of literally thousand of ultra-low-efficiency fuel (methane) burning rocket launches with the other.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#534

Post by dTal » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

jcfrei wrote: post #489

headmelted wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. A 200% value-added tax on fossil fuels that rises by 10% every year would provide the capital. EDIT: To clarify, this is not a suggestion to raise capital from the tax as much as it's to raise capital from the use of fossil fuels. It's a suggestion for an increasingly punitive financial cost to force behavioural changes.

That's not going to work. A lot of people (and industries) rely on cars to do their jobs. It's a lot of low-income households who rely most on cars because they live in remote areas due to housing costs and have to commute to city centers to find work. Such a tax would cause a huge backlash in large parts of the population in any country and the government who enacts it would be quickly disbanded. We need subsidies t…

I'm all in favor of subsidies to help the disadvantaged, as a general matter of principle. But fundamentally, disrupting people's lifestyles is the point. Yes, it's going to radically shift the economics of all kinds of things, including commuting. That's exactly what needs to happen. There's got to be a big rebalancing, which is hopefully the sort of thing that the free market is good at. What we need to do is make sure there are enough safety nets and wealth redistribution so that no one gets left behind - again, as a general principle, not just over this one issue.

All change is going to disproportionately impact the disadvantaged. But I don't think we can let that be an argument against change in general.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#535

Post by kylebyproxy » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

ihuk wrote: post #478

We bought an expensive washing machine 3 years ago thinking it will last us a long time. It already broke down twice. It's been broken for almost a month now waiting for parts and whatnot. There's a good chance we'll have to get another one. Does Electrolux/AEG care? No. They don't care about the environment, their only obligation is to their shareholders. But frankly neither do I anymore. Next time, I'll buy the che…

Ehh, I look at it more like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space%E2%80%93time_tradeoff

Either we can have more stuff and larger material/waste/energy/emissions footprint to save us some time/effort or improve convenience/pleasure, or we can put in the time & effort to lessen our footprint. I say we're overindulging our pleasures and underperforming our responsibilities.

That's not to say we're necessarily lazy, but likely due to a combination of pressures that distract and exhaust us through the course of our modern lives. Remove the oppressive/coercive/manipulative influences and more individuals will have the space to act responsibly. The greater challenge will be to train them to actually do so.

You seem to want to wash your hands of the whole thing, as if the presence of major polluters somehow absolves you from your part in this. Ultimately, it comes down to the actions of individuals. The faceless organizations pillaging the environment subsist entirely on our patronage; stop feeding into them and they die off. Ezpz.

Is handwashing dishes & clothes really too much to ask?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#536

Post by yoavm » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:55 PM UTC

pmorici wrote: post #528

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn’t Musk the climate change guy you are looking for. He’s done more to advance the cause of sustainable energy than perhaps anyone.

Right, especially when he put $1.5b in Bitcoin.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#537

Post by failuser » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #447

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

I’m pretty sure Russia is still way below (50%) the 1990 levels though.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#538

Post by NumberWangMan » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

I think others have mentioned CCL already, but if you live in the USA want a specific, concrete, easy action you can take RIGHT NOW to move us toward a carbon tax & dividend, check this out:

https://citizensclimatelobby.org/senate/

Right now we have the best chance in a long time to actually get a carbon tax passed, but it depends on lots of us calling and writing our senators to make sure they know we want one! If you support this, please do it as soon as you have a chance.

And I very much agree -- even for people who are willing to take individual action, without including environmental impact into the price of things, it's very hard to figure out where you can best make a difference.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#539

Post by miltondts » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

ttiurani wrote: post #131

konspence wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing to "keep" under 1.5C, we are pretty much already there when error bars are considered. 2C is going to be breached regardless because even if we went carbon neutral today we have decades of locked in warming. Why the scientists are not communicating this information which has been in pop-science (as early as An Inconvenient Truth (2006), which documents the lag between CO2 rise and temp rise) is beyond…

Don't quite know what you mean by "locked in warming" (nor didn't have time to look at this report yet), but the previous scenarios have massive scale future magic carbon takeback tech baked in. I assume if there was something like that ongoing on a global scale and almost no new emissions, 1.5 degrees might be theoretically possible?

Here's a report on a study that shows we are already at > 2C: https://www.ecowatch.com/greenhouse-gases-paris-agreement-26...

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#540

Post by Dumblydorr » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:58 PM UTC

Isn't it time to block the sun's radiant energy? What is the real disadvantage to trying to lift a giant solar umbrella that blocks light from hitting the Earth? It may be pricy but we spend billions per climate disaster, if we could use a few falcon heavy launches and reduce incoming energy by 1 or 2%, we could buy ourselves the time to fix our emissions and ramp up carbon capture.

The other alternative could be increasing cloud cover by releasing aerosols into the upper atmosphere. This would be like an artificial volcanic eruption, a purposeful but temporary hazing which would buy us a little time and let the planet cool off for 50 years before we're ready to go au natural again.

Can someone give me the critiques of these? They seem much simpler than crying about disasters and reports to GOP foot-draggers and all those who don't care about science. The sad reality is around 10,000 government and business officials have 90% of the power on climate, I don't see convincing all these power brokers to help the biosphere, they want profits not environmental restoration. So, let's have them block the sun's energy until we've transitioned our energy system.