Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday • Hacker News Board

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#531

Post by asdswe » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 11:05 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #21

0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

Based on my observations the vast majority of "men" talking down girls in video games are teenager boys, most of whom eventually grow up and stop doing that. Admittedly some never grow up, perhaps they're more likely to be heavy gamers and even become game devs?

Anyway, I think any spaces dominated by teenagers will always be pretty toxic places, no matter if we're talking about schools or gaming servers. I have no idea what could be done about it, other than proper supervision by staff or server moderators.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#532

Post by cletus » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 11:16 AM UTC

bennysomething wrote: post #530

cletus wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of behaviour is obvious in aggregate but hard to identify in particular cases. If you make a job posting, get 5 applicants, interview 3 of them and hire 1 it's hard to point a finger and say you did (or didn't) do anything wrong. But let's say over the course of a year you receive 10,000 applications for various positions and 15% of those are African American. Now say that 10% of applicants get to the interview…

Someone company or gov organisation I can't recall who removed all names and gender data from their application process, it decreased the likelyhood of a woman getting hired. Everyone keeps saying we're all stained with some original sin of not being able to hire without awful biases, we're not to be trusted with our own thoughts. Ah found the thing I was talking about: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-re…

While that trial didn’t have the desired result, didn’t it show or at least strongly suggest that gender and background are factors in recruiting in aggregate?

We can speculate what this means. One possibility is that the Australian public service overcompensates for gender bias by having a lower bar for female candidates. I can’t say if that’s true but this does seem to support the idea that some increase diversity with a lower hiring bar.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#533

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 11:49 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #233

If you haven't read the state of California's claims here you should. It's the result of a two year investigation and the claims are.. shocking. I want to make a point about "culture fit". "Culture fit" in a company typically comes down to "we like you" and the reason why people like other people is that they are like them. Similar age, background, whatever. It's why Stanford grads probably like other Stanford grads.…

I think you are making a lot of assumptions here. Were it even the one responsible for hiring that misbehaved?

It is correct to be angry about this, but your answer seems to be vindictive. Next step is to wait for the verdict.

> So without intervention this toxicity will tend to spread.

Most businesses operate without sexual misdemeanor happening. On the contrary, I doubt the measures now announced by Kotick will ever be non-toxic. Because here you institute a group that will turn on random employees as they see fit. It is the wrong medicine in my opinion.

Useful would be to accuse the people responsible and use the law against them in a court of justice without arbitration.

Kotick voted for group punishment and I don't really understand how anyone would want to work at Activision to be honest because that isn't the way to get a non-toxic workplace. I doubt we will see much cooperation here.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#534

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 11:56 AM UTC

scotuswroteus wrote: post #479

yarg wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She'd dress up for christmas and halloween, nothing that bad. Other than that she sat in the corner (nearish the pool table) being inoffensive. The second edge: there is the risk that healthy aspects of a prevailing culture will be eroded for the sake of an overly vocal regressive minority.

OR some of these squabbles over lifestyle preferences should not be contested in an office space because people should not be living out their personal lives through office decorations or in anyway identifying with the office in such a way that the hefty and meaningful word "culture" implies. Everyone should have ample personal space and personal time and lives of their own. You shouldn't remember whether the office…

At some point you have to give people incentives to actually want to work in an office culture. Stringent office professionalism is an ideal that is held up in conflicts, but no workplace looks that way.

Managers will quickly identify emotional needs and this adherence to neutrality is a telltale sign that something is bothering you. My task would be address that but also keep it from affecting other employees.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#535

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:42 PM UTC

rustybelt wrote: post #419

madamelic wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'm not sure which game you're talking about, but I suspect you misunderstand the criticism. There have been thousands of female video game characters going back to the dawn of the industry. Many titles which prominently feature female characters have done very well (e.g.., Tomb Raider, Final Fantasy, etc). I'm guessing there has never been significant controversy because a video game featured a female character, th…

What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway? It's escapist entertainment. Are men now forbidden from enjoying attractive women in media? Absolutely don't harass people or discriminate, but this posture against sexualized characters is weirdly puritanical, especially considering the long history in games of non-sexualized, empowered female protagonists.

> What is wrong with sexualized characters anyway?

The answer probably heavily depends if you ask an US American or a Frenchmen. Same with bro culture, that I don't see intrinsic in tech and much more a product of other influences.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#536

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 12:56 PM UTC

j_walter wrote: post #18

> The suit was followed by an outpouring of current and former employees saying they’d been harassed or mistreated at the company. I never understand why in the world we currently live in there are so many people willing to be silent for so long. Weinstein did his crap for years, the US gymnastics assaults went on for years. This probably isn't a popular opinion...but when victims choose to remain silent they are com…

Victims are silent because there are consequences to speaking out, not only restricted to negative reactions which I believe are rare aside from the accused.

Not only can it destroy your career, there are also consequences when you confide in family and friends. They will treat you differently and maybe you don't even want that and put everything behind you.

Legally there might even be low chances of recourse because you have no evidence. Especially when celebrities are involved, the requirements for that are high.

This might not be something you can change with culture and is intrinsic to the respective crimes.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#537

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

bennysomething wrote: post #530

cletus wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of behaviour is obvious in aggregate but hard to identify in particular cases. If you make a job posting, get 5 applicants, interview 3 of them and hire 1 it's hard to point a finger and say you did (or didn't) do anything wrong. But let's say over the course of a year you receive 10,000 applications for various positions and 15% of those are African American. Now say that 10% of applicants get to the interview…

Someone company or gov organisation I can't recall who removed all names and gender data from their application process, it decreased the likelyhood of a woman getting hired. Everyone keeps saying we're all stained with some original sin of not being able to hire without awful biases, we're not to be trusted with our own thoughts. Ah found the thing I was talking about: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-re…

[deleted]

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#538

Post by raxxorrax » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

jimmygrapes wrote: post #439

vsareto wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What companies do those things? That actually sounds like fun. The Star Wars lingo probably gets old though. It should really be Expanse lingo if they want to stay cool.

I really doubt that listening to people try to emulate the belter language and lingo is any better than listening to jar jar impressions (or klingon...), but it's hard to be say until it happens, so... bring it on

There is fan made poetry and short stories in Klingon. It is estimated that there are 20-30 people that can even speak it fluently.

No way anyone of those would ever be uncool.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#539

Post by shadowgovt » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #462

planet-and-halo wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone on HN recently posted a Jonathan Blow talk, "How to Save Civilization," that argues the normal evolution of technology is not a linear progression upwards, but actually slow degradation due to loss of knowledge and maintenance. I think this is a perfect example of why.

This is part of the advantage of the "Unix Philosophy": many small, easily understood processes that work in tandem to produce a complex outcome. Each individual process is less prone to knowledge decay. However, this is moot in gamedev. We throw everything away before starting the next project because we don't "own" the IP from the last project.

I also strongly suspect that game development slightly favors a monolithic approach because performance is key, and it's extremely hard to maintain maximum performance with thick abstractions. Inevitably, you find out you can do something faster if you stop making a function call or treat a binary representation in two different ways in two different places in the code and abstractions leak and break.

Unless all the small processes are designed with a very firm pattern underpinning them that happens to be the correct pattern to maximize efficiency, you'll inevitably find a situation where two subsystems need intimate knowledge of how each other work to maximize performance.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#540

Post by blindmute » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

nineplay wrote: post #310

cletus wrote: post #233

If you haven't read the state of California's claims here you should. It's the result of a two year investigation and the claims are.. shocking. I want to make a point about "culture fit". "Culture fit" in a company typically comes down to "we like you" and the reason why people like other people is that they are like them. Similar age, background, whatever. It's why Stanford grads probably like other Stanford grads.…

> I want to make a point about "culture fit" "culture fit" is one of the biggest causes of workplace discrimination and I still see it pushed in 'hiring training' as perfectly valid criteria. Things I've seen teams consider "culture" - will the candidate go to our weekly study session at the micro-brewery? - will the candidate stay after work to play multi-player games with us? - is the candidate entertained by all t…

Why is discrimination in this sense bad?