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How to Work Hard

paulgraham.com

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Re: How to Work Hard

#531

Post by bachmeier »

eloff wrote: post #510
bachmeier wrote: post #498

> It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win. I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work.…

PG says: > There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three: you need great natural ability and to have practiced a lot and to be trying very hard. I think that's the fundamental secret to success at anything. If you want to compete at the top level you have to have all three. It's not sufficient to just…

Without luck, you will not get to the level of Messi. Without knowledge, you will not get to the level of Messi. Without living in the right environment, you will not get to the level of Messi.

The "natural ability" thing is just a spin on the same idea. Work hard to recognize your natural ability. Be realistic about it. In that view, natural ability is not a matter of luck. It is still a story about doing the right things so that you deserve all the credit if you are successful, and more importantly, so that you can blame those that didn't.

Re: How to Work Hard

#532

Post by ttiurani »

> [E]ven in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless.

I find it interesting PG thinks that dismissing entire branches of science without specifying which ones nor justifying why, is a) a good take or b) makes his essay better.

Re: How to Work Hard

#533

Post by alfalfasprout »

nineplay wrote: post #317

One of my greatest regrets is how much time I wasted on 'work' in my 20s and 30s. I was an engineer, I made a comfortable salary, but I rarely took a vacation, I never traveled outside the UI, I took days off reluctantly with a vague feeling that I was letting someone down. "Later", I told myself. When I'm successful, when I'm stable, when I have the money to travel in style and not backpack around and stay at hostel…

I have to echo this. I know HN is full of people obsessed with a very different lifestyle but frankly... I think this piece misses the mark entirely.

PG I suspect and many others derive intrinsic happiness from the grind. From achievement. Yet this is a very myopic way to live that for the vast majority of people will result in a fair amount of unhappiness.

A far healthier and happier way to live is to live a balanced life. Work efficiently when you need to work, and be focused on your objectives. Don't waste time on stuff that doesn't matter. You can still be successful, grow yourself, etc. but without killing yourself in the process.

And for the love of god... take time for yourself to enjoy the finer things in life. Take a walk and try to find the beauty in things. Go travel somewhere new! Enjoy some you time and treat yourself.

I cannot disagree more with PG here, sadly. But that's all it is... a disagreement. Everyone gets to choose what life they want to live.

Re: How to Work Hard

#534

Post by caeril »

mjfl wrote: post #355
nineplay wrote: post #317

One of my greatest regrets is how much time I wasted on 'work' in my 20s and 30s. I was an engineer, I made a comfortable salary, but I rarely took a vacation, I never traveled outside the UI, I took days off reluctantly with a vague feeling that I was letting someone down. "Later", I told myself. When I'm successful, when I'm stable, when I have the money to travel in style and not backpack around and stay at hostel…

Traveling the world is a life goal for shallow people. It is a shallow experience.

I sometimes have the same thought, but it may be more charitable to phrase it this way instead (which is more accurate):

"Traveling the world seems like a life goal for extroverts. It is an experience I don't understand the benefits of, personally."

Re: How to Work Hard

#535

Post by steaknsteak »

asauce wrote: post #403
nineplay wrote: post #317

One of my greatest regrets is how much time I wasted on 'work' in my 20s and 30s. I was an engineer, I made a comfortable salary, but I rarely took a vacation, I never traveled outside the UI, I took days off reluctantly with a vague feeling that I was letting someone down. "Later", I told myself. When I'm successful, when I'm stable, when I have the money to travel in style and not backpack around and stay at hostel…

PG briefly touches on it here, but one of the biggest factors on being able to consistently work hard is reward. PG mostly talks about intrinsic reward in this article. We should work on stuff that is interesting to us, and brings us fulfillment. However, I believe that Paul is missing a huge component here, and that is extrinsic reward. Extrinsic reward complements intrinsic reward. Extrinsic reward allows us to pus…

This is something I struggle with, as someone who worked really hard in school but has become less productive as a professional. In school there are well-defined deadlines and discrete tasks with extrinsic rewards in the form of grades. Even though the rewards were "fake" in a sense, people cared about them so I was motivated to earn those rewards, partially due to competitive drive.

In my professional life, that motivation has all but disappeared for me. I already have the comfortable salary I hoped for, and individual achievements aren't directly rewarded with more money in the short. So what else is left as an extrinsic reward that can provide that drive on a daily basis?

I haven't found the answer to that yet myself. Sometimes I feel like I've been given too much too soon and that's removed my hunger to work. That plus existing in a collaborative environment instead of a competitive one.

Re: How to Work Hard

#536

Post by void_mint »

I came here to rip apart this post and PG for propping up hustle culture bullshit, but am actually pleasantly surprised at his takes. I would reword most of his post to be more about "being engaged" instead of "working hard", because "work" has so many flavors and misconceptions.

> My limit for the harder types of writing or programming is about five hours a day. Whereas when I was running a startup, I could work all the time. At least for the three years I did it; if I'd kept going much longer, I'd probably have needed to take occasional vacations. [5]

Most programmers don't have the ability or scope to be engaged in the way that he's talking about wrt his startup, so most programmers should stop working as soon as they're at their "productivity threshold" throughout the day and have fulfilled their remaining busywork duties. I really wish tech "influencers" like PG would post more about that - when to put the mouse down and go for a walk or watch a movie.

I actually think the "best" take would be "Every individual should work exactly as hard as they believe they should". I think it's a reality, in that most people are unwilling to work any harder than they want to, but also I think context is probably the most important factor in terms of "work", "output" and "success". If you don't feel like you should work hard, or don't need to, you're either working on something that isn't worth your time, or you don't feel engaged at all. Both are fine, but both also signal you should move on.

This post turned into kind of a ramble. Apologies.

Re: How to Work Hard

#538

Post by [deleted] »

xupybd wrote: post #503
mumblemumble wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every personality has its problematic characteristics. I think that one of the more problematic, even toxic, ones shared by many Type A personalities is a need to try and make other people feel bad for not themselves being sufficiently neurotic. (I realize the Type A/Type B personality theory is largely crap. I'm just using it here as a useful shorthand that many people will recognize.) That paragraph the quote came…

It is possible that he is fueled by an anxious drive. Even probable, but there are a small group of people that find meaning in what they do. When the work towards that they get a buzz that is insatiable.

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#539

Post by [deleted] »

magicloop wrote: post #230

"I never took a day off in my twenties" (Bill Gates) quote is a misnomer because what Bill Gates considers a day-off is something where you are just lying around doing nothing, such as lying on the beach. A two week sojourn into a set of books that interested him were not considered "days off". He did such activities yearly. Bill Gates wasn't in the office working a 7 day schedule for his entire 20s. So that is not t…

[deleted]

Re: How to Work Hard

#540

Post by giantg2 »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #275
giantg2 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"create more problems than they solve." Like what? Or was this ironic use of your own hyperbole?

Like causing people to lose trust in the "anti-inequality" message. If we need to lie or exaggerate to persuade then we may rightly lose credibility. Pro-inequality folks can even deflect the conversation to our own exaggeration. I didn't mean to imply that hyperbole is comparable to inequality in scale or severity, but rather that any gains afforded by hyperbole tend to be short-sighted.

I don't feel it was a lie or exaggeration. Many people do not feel like their life is worth living when they work a job they hate just to pay the bills, get no time to enjoy life, etc. It shouldn't be a surprise when the general trend is for highly industrialized countries to experience higher suicide rates.
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