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One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

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Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#531

Post by CRConrad »

defaultname wrote: post #112
bogwog wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange how it's still the top comment in this thread, even though it's a personal attack that has nothing to do with the actual topic, or make any attempt to discuss his arguments. Seems like the type of tactic you'd see from those lobbyist groups that pay money to release commercials claiming right to repair will lead to rape: https://youtu.be/EozPi1qmH44?t=59

Personal attack, character assassination, apparently it's astroturfing (something something rape), another guy saying it's "NSA tactics". Amazing. Pretty rabid fanbase. Anything other than adulation must have nefarious origins. It certainly can't be organic. I think it was upvoted (after a lot of downvotes) because a lot of people have experienced the same thing. Rossmann started as a Mac/Apple repair guy elbowing to…

> Rossmann started as a Mac/Apple repair guy elbowing to try to keep his business going, which no one can contest and was admirable and sympathetic. He had a credible argument about right to repair.

> Somewhere along the way -- maybe after Apple had customs block some of his imports, or maybe after he started getting those fat YouTube checks -- he turned from an Apple repair guy to an anti-Apple advocate in virtually every dimension.

So after being persecuted by Apple he became generally anti-Apple? Wow, go figure, how utterly weird.

(And clearly shows he's the bad guy and Apple the good ones.)

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#532

Post by CRConrad »

webmobdev wrote: post #151
judge2020 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my opinion is that device makers should be allowed to make things unrepairable in design, but not in post-sale scarcity. The new macbook airs probably could have been just a tad thicker if they included modular ram and a m.2 ssd, but some consumers (and reviewers) really do like to chase thinness and will chastise Apple to continue to try to make their products as thin as a sheet of paper.

The "thinness" fad was started by a Motorola phone. Apple studies such fads before launching a device and latched on it. And it makes sense for phones, to a certain extent, because nobody likes a bulky phone in their pocket. For a laptop you'd actually be more concerned about the weight than its thickness.

> nobody likes a bulky phone in their pocket.

Sure, the ~5"×2"×2" 1997 Motorola Whatever was a little unwieldy in your jeans. But after Nokia had brought the thickness down under 0.8" with the 6210 a few years later, that really wasn't a problem any more.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#533

Post by CRConrad »

slver wrote: post #241
stale2002 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny. I was in another conversation with the same user, and they trolled in the same exact way. Harp on their point without actually addressing anything in the response, or original post. Just completely ignore it.

Yes, that's the right approach, if you can't develop your argument, just jump to another thread and assassinate my character with generalizations.

Honestly, re-read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27255427 and have another think about whether the GP is "assassinat [ing your] character with generalizations" or just simply posting the plain truth. Your debating style, at least judging from what I've seen of it here, does indeed seem to blithely disregard valid responses.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#534

Post by CRConrad »

stephenr wrote: post #181
rubyist5eva wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right to Repair is not just about repairing things yourself, it’s about the freedom to choose who you would like to repair something for you. I can’t repair my own MacBook but I don’t think I should be forced to pay outlandish prices to Apple for the privilege if I don’t want to.

I don't understand. Is Apple holding a gun to your head if you take it to an unauthorised repairer?

They are making it impossible to be an unauthorised repairer.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#535

Post by infogulch »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #473
infogulch wrote: post #471

This is another symptom of the sickness in our current implementation of Intellectual Property law. IP is being allowed to eat all other forms of ownership, even as whatever is left is being eroded away. I'm not sure where I heard "In 50 years nobody will own anything, and everyone will be happy about it." to which I respond with two possibilities: 1. We are happy; great. 2. We are unhappy; and able to do fuck all ab…

You forgot the scariest: 3. we are unhappy, but don't even understand it because society have lost any reference point to an alternative or any way to talk about it.

Or 4. We are "happy", but only because expressing unhappiness is against the TOS and in response you are banned from society with as little fanfare as google can ban your account for no reason.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#536

Post by passivate »

Nextgrid wrote: post #213
paulgerhardt wrote: post #208

Living in Shenzhen, it’s shocking how easy it is to go out and repair stuff. Living in Palo Alto, it’s frustrating how hard it is. I’m thinking maybe, just maybe, introducing repairability laws won’t solve the problem. I am perfectly happy upgrading the memory on my MacBook Air with a reflow air station rather than swapping out some dims if it means my laptop is half as thick and twice as rugged. I’m also just as hap…

The reason it can be done in China is because those shops illegally obtain the parts (whether counterfeit or stolen, since Apple won't intentionally sell them to anyone) and resources (schematics, software, etc) to be able to do so. This situation is both good and bad. Stolen parts are good, in the sense that this grey market at least allows consumers to repair devices cost-effectively. It's also bad, because besides…

>The reason it can be done in China is because those shops illegally obtain the parts (whether counterfeit or stolen, since Apple won't intentionally sell them to anyone) and resources (schematics, software, etc) to be able to do so.

Or they use parts from doner phones/devices.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#537

Post by passivate »

GuB-42 wrote: post #426
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the grey market opens the door to bad actors who pass off used/defective/rejected/counterfeit parts as the real thing. The real thing is already broken if you're at the point of buying these parts. The entire object is already e-waste until you add new parts. E-waste turned into functional object is a good thing even if it's achieved with used/rejected/counterfeit parts.

Some counterfeit parts can be worse than waste, they can be dangerous. Like batteries that catch fire and glass that shatters into sharp fragments. It can also happens to legitimate products (ex: Galaxy Note 7), but these can be traced and recalls can be issued.

>Some counterfeit parts can be worse than waste, they can be dangerous. Like batteries that catch fire and glass that shatters into sharp fragments.

The real issue is not the part, it's the company doing the service. Legitimate service centers will source parts that are high quality - just like any other industry. People still repair cars (including brakes) on their own - to give you one example.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#538

Post by passivate »

walrus01 wrote: post #369
Nextgrid wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By the time you were to pay for the repair service and the parts it might not be economical. Louis Rossmann proves that such a business does work and is profitable while remaining significantly cheaper for customers (otherwise he wouldn't get any business).

I think this works by volume of customers in the NYC metro, but might not be viable for a repair shop in a smaller city. I would be very interested to see if a similar specialist could financially support the salaries of a few full time techs in a much smaller metro on the scale of, for example, Spokane WA.

>I would be very interested to see if a similar specialist could financially support the salaries of a few full time techs in a much smaller metro on the scale of, for example, Spokane WA.

You can have a B2B business model where local stores replace phones for customers and then mail the broken phones in bulk to a repair center.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#539

Post by passivate »

pembrook wrote: post #428
swiley wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no that's bullshit. (and a change of subject) We're not asking for modular connectors (although those are nice) or larger competents. we're asking Apple (and everyone imitating them) to stop artificially preventing people from replacing parts (either via deals with suppliers that prevent people from buying them or via software lockouts.) People do surface mount rework all the time (I think the guy TFA is talking…

> “People do surface mount rework all the time” What percentage of Apple customers are doing surface mount rework, or even hiring other people to do this, in your estimation? My guess is less than .01%. And how much could that really be increased if Apple were forced to make their parts accessible and available in the aftermarket? Vs the carbon footprint of the extra manufacturing effort and having to set up distribu…

>Apple were forced to make their parts accessible and available in the aftermarket?Vs the carbon footprint of the extra manufacturing effort and having to set up distribution channels for these parts?

This is not accurate. Apple doesn't make the parts. Apple doesn't "set up distribution channels" for parts. These already exist. Apple buys it on the market. What Apple then does is force the parts suppliers to only sell to them via exclusivity arrangements. We would like for repair shops to also purchase be able to purchase these parts so they can extend the life-time of these devices.

>I just don’t see the sustainability argument. I don’t think any large number of people would suddenly say they want to keep their slow, heat-generating Intel MBPs if they were more repairable. The upgrade cycle will always be the upgrade cycle.

Phones, like other consumer electronics get dropped, bumped, damaged. This can happen in the first week of ownership, in the second week, or at anytime after that. The idea that you should just scrap it and buy the next model is ridiculous.

https://www.repair.org/the-environment

https://www.fastcompany.com/40561811/greenpeace-to-apple-for...

>I’d be more on the side of the right to repair Apple critics if they would just be honest and say “hey, this is a hobby for us and we want to save money and we just want to be able to do this stuff because it’s fun!”

This is nowhere even close to what most people are talking about in this thread. I hate to have to say it, but you really seem to be arguing in bad-faith here.

Re: One man’s fight for the right to repair broken MacBooks

#540

Post by passivate »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #182
relix wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to that video? What I've noticed from "right of repair" types of complaints is that they're often missing any search for ulterior motives regarding those decisions beyond "well obviously the only reason they did this was because they wanted to make it hard to repair". I need to reserve judgment until I see what Rossman has to say about the specific instance you mention - but is it possible the chip…

This. He always assumes Apple is evil, Apple is screwing repair because they like screwing repair. Most companies aren't like that - companies are made of engineers, and do they like fighting repair for the sake of fighting repair? He never addresses what ulterior motives there may be. This might actually be why he complains he's been in many legislatures, testified, and they haven't gone further. The lack of willing…

I agree that Apple isn't necessarily evil, but they sure would rather you buy a phone than repair it.

That makes me wonder... is there any example where the newer model of an iPhone was easier to repair than the previous one? I'm still rocking my 6s and I had to have the front-glass replaced twice (clumsy!). Thankfully I haven't needed any other repairs.

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