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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

paygo.media

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not invalid by itself as long as everyone knows that the game is purely transactional. But it isn't fair to expect employee "passion" when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary. This still seems to hold no?

> when their own continued employment is contingent on whether management thinks they're still necessary Talk about entitlement. You think that when a company hires you, that should be a commitment to employ you forever regardless of need? Passion can come from your own investment in the success of the business, through equity and through the opportunities that come to productive employees at growing companies, both…

> You think that when a company hires you, that should be a commitment to employ you forever regardless of need?

Hardly. I can't speak for the original comment I quoted, but I personally view employment as pretty transactional. You pay me this, I give you this. I may or may not have passion, but that should be immaterial to the job at hand.

The employer sets a bar. The employee clears it or does not. That bar may change over time. If the employee does not clear the bar the employer fires the employee. If the employee clears the bar the employer continues paying the employee.

To the extent that passion comes into the conversation, it's an internal issue for the employee to sort out by themselves and not really the business of the employer.

Are you saying something different? Because I don't think we're actually in disagreement, but maybe we are?

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seems like the kind of CEO I would love to work for. It seems like he tries to care about his users a lot, and wants his team to as well. Also, the "offensive things" in his talks were only offensive to a small vocal minority by his own account.

> Also, the "offensive things" in his talks were only offensive to a small vocal minority by his own account. Is that really something we should take at face value? There are plenty of instances of people getting unreasonably offended but it's also extremely common for people to be shitty to their colleagues and use this as an excuse. He provides no actual examples.

Well, there is a little context provided by the post itself. While a lot of people seem to be calling him toxic, he comes off as quite genuine to me.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#534
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever prioritize your users over yourself? They have no idea who you are and they don't care. Don't you have your own goals to worry about?

Where does he say to prioritize users over yourself?

That's what caring about the users or the product at the expense of ladder climbing is.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#535
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft became almost irrelevant under Ballmer or was at least trending that way. Nadella’s turn around is almost miraculous and is itself probably an interesting story. I wouldn’t bet on that as the norm. I’d expect the norm to be more like IBM, RIM, or Nokia. I agree with most of the article, but one line stuck out to me as particularly wrong: >”After the acquisition, we have an extremely long project that consum…

I somewhat sympathize with those living in a small apartment who used to walk, take a shuttle bus, take the subway, etc. to work where they were fed 5 days a week or more--and now they're stuck in their small apartments with most restaurants closed and facing the prospect of maybe having to move to a bigger place. So one can choose to interpret complaints about meal expensing in that vein. That said, in general, at l…

In my mind the company provides food as a perk in part so people hang around and chat without leaving the office, it also makes it more pleasant to work there.

It’s not to feed you in your own home.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, political correctness creates a stranglehold on ideas, the very last thing those in SV need when they are regulating their own monopolies of ideas online.

Excessive political correctness does that. A good amount of political correctness means that you never have to work for a manager who openly respects you less because of your race or gender.

Or also you never have to work for a manager who openly respects others more because of their race or gender. A wide variety of things apply this way. A sane amount of political correctness allows the meritocracy I want in a workplace.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#537
post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take would be Google can afford it for now because they have a web ad monopoly and don’t have to compete. If they ever lose that, the culture they’ve built will cause them to be destroyed and irrelevant in not that much time. For now, it’s summer.

I recall watching a news report as a teen about how things used to be pretty chill at Microsoft at its heyday. These days it doesn't seem to have a monopoly on much of anything, but it can still crank out interesting projects. It doesn't have to be a black-and-white do-or-die.

MSFT is still known for good WLB. Just check places like Blind to get an idea of the corporate culture of a company. There are certainly hard teams/jobs at MSFT but it seems on average that the WLB at MSFT is super good.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#538

This mention of "yoga at 11am" seems to be rubbing some folks the wrong way, but what if it was "lunch for an hour at 11am"? In all the jobs I've held (including now) where working hours are not dictated by external forces, such as customer service expectations, our teams make sure we get in our hours and are more or less available during a reasonable window, say 8am-5/6pm. It is pretty much understood that there wil…

Yeah, I don't get the unhealthy interest in other people's private life. As long as your job is to get work done, and not cover duty station at time xyz, complaining about when people choose to take a break is really weird and invasive. In my experience people who are permitted flexible work schedules and take advantage of them tend to be the better employees.

He was complaining about his inability to schedule meetings because of the 11:00am spot. Even in the most flexible of environments, lunch is usually off-limits, 1:00pm is tricky because people can be late due to lunch and this 11:00am yoga essentially means a nearly 3 hour block with difficult scheduling constraints. I don't agree with a lot he has to say but this one kind of makes sense. Routing un-availbility at 9:00am, 11:00am and 3:00pm are, well in my opinion at least slightly uncool (one off's are fine ofcourse).

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misinterpreting what he's saying. I didn't get the impression that he claims that employees growth doesn't matter. He's saying that most people optimize for promotion rather than building a better product. That's indeed the wrong thing to optimize for, esp for the company. Not being able to fire people is indeed a big disadvantage. Bad employees are much worse than just not contributing. They make the peo…

> He's saying that most people optimize for promotion rather than building a better product. That's indeed the wrong thing to optimize for, esp for the company. It’s literally his job, as a CEO, to make sure promos and career progression align with increased product quality. Sure, it’s harder as a part big company, where there’s more bureaucracy to deal with (both for good reasons of consistency and equality, and bad…

Was literally about to type this out. The issue of prioritizing promos over product value doesn't exist when delivering product value is what gets you promoted. If that's not the case, it's the fault of management and not the employee.
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