If you have an investment in crypto - is there anyway to leverage that for a FIAT house loan? As in to be approved for a mortgage, but only have to pay the monthly instalments
in FIAT ? This way one could keep most of their investment in Crypto through the years and drip feed the loan?
S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
531–540 of 571 posts
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? Why does having an index matter, if the SEC didn't even like single coin funds?
Some of the SEC's objections to Bitcoin ETFs revolved around the possibility of market manipulation due to the markets being small, unregulated, and overseas. If the index is constructed in a way that resists manipulation by unregulated overseas exchanges, and if it is used as the basis for other products like options in regulated domestic markets that gain significant trading volume, then it could go some way toward…
I don't understand how you would design an index to reduce manipulation by unregulated entities.
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's your argument for Bitcoin. It cannot be planted by anyone, like tulips. Its supply cannot be increased arbitrarily. Tulips, in fact, could be a bit more complicated. Bitcoin is quite simple that way. Spent electricity is stored and traded - and is a good yardstick to measure other things, etc. etc.
wouldn't storing electricity mean that you're able to take some out of storage & use that stored electricity? I don't see a way to turn bitcoin back into electricity. One could exchange bitcoin to fiat currency and then buy new electricity(created from a different source) but that's not really using stored electricity.
That's true. It's a verifiable "burn of electricity". The only upside to the burning is the verifiability. If there was some other way to generate this verifiable scarcity of something that we all agree on (electricity is kind of universal, that way), that would be better - obviously.
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
And where halve of the raise on crypto is because of tether...
I call BS. Bitcoin's trading volume has been between $20 and $50 billion USD per day (in the last year). Tether's total valuation is $19.4 billion. It's a drop in the bucket.
Bitcoin is traded, even is we forget for a moment about wash trading. In each transaction we generate only a small margin, which adds to the value of traded assets. Only 2-5 billion dollars of bitcoins were from mining in 2020. Tethers are printed out of thin air and sold fully, from 0$ to 1$ (in equivalent), margin is 100%. So 15 billion of new tethers printed this summer had much more influence on the market than even greater amount of Bitcoin trades.
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a lot of respect for Raul Pal, but when he talks about crypto you start to see his limits in understanding. He still thinks governments can't ban crypto if they wanted, he is very wrong about that. He also thinks that governments would allow a crypto to rival a state currency. The most likely success story for crypto is it will be only for banks while regular people will be banned from owning it. There is simp…
But if you look at his video, he does say governments might attempt to ban crypto, but it would be hard to totally ban, since other governments might adopt cryptos. For an effective ban all world governments have to work together on this, and that's quite unlikely to happen. Actually Iran is using cryptos right now to circumvent some bans from the US government. Certainly Iran would not be in favour for banning crypt…
He gives the gold ban as an example of "failure" for governments to ban it. He thinks the technology behind bitcoin is somehow so advanced that it is even better protected from governments than gold is.
Those are his main points. And I think they are both wrong. The gold example is from ancient times without KYC/AML and absolute surveillance. There is nothing substantial you could possibly do nowadays without proper invoicing and inventory tracking. Regulators will notice instantly.
The tech behind bitcoin isn't really that advanced and hiding from the government was never a focus. The tech used by regulators has evolved significantly from the times of previous "defeats". People don't realise how much work goes into tracing payments worldwide. Remember FATCA took only two years to deploy worldwide along with a roadmap to tighten control over the next decade.
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just as an aside, you cannot build the Bitcoin blockchain overnight as well - because of proof of work and network effects of bitcoin full nodes. That gives it "value". It's function is to serve as that - a store of value.
The difference to me is that gold is a precious metal with finite tangible volume. It can be used to create goods. So, there’s value there. But Bitcoin was designed to be a currency. Certainly the software is worth something. Or maybe nothing really. Look at other FOSS. As far as a currency goes though? I don’t want my currency to fluctuate. The idea of bargaining with an employer or client to pay me “more” this week…
It’s a monetary network that stores energy at no power loss. What makes Facebook valuable? THE NETWORK
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not intrinsic value though. Fiat currency by definition has no intrinsic value. Fiat literally means "let it be done", i.e. it is given value by a decree and not because of its intrinsic value.
You have to pay taxes in USD. Not being thrown in jail is value... maybe not intrinsic though. USD in paper form can also be burned for warmth, or used to write on. In coin form, it has the same intrinsic value as the metal.
Indeed the fact that you have to pay taxes in USD is not intrinsic value, that is actually what makes it fiat (That is the decree by which it is given value)
However the flammability is a good example of intrinsic value
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#538I’m enjoying sitting on the sidelines and watching people “invest” in a digital “currency” that you cannot spend, does not produce cash flow, and whose values are determined by other shmucks buying it from previous shmucks. What a time to be alive. No wonder the S&P 500 CAPE ratio is beyond the 1929 high. No one has any idea of what the intrinsic value is of anything. Investing in companies that don’t make a profit,…
There's too much idle wealth in the world, or more precisely too many people with wealth have no idea what to do with it. It ends up 'invested' into negative yield assets like bitcoin (billions of dollars lost to mining per year - over 7 at the current price) or hyped companies running at perpetual loss. Bitcoin is interesting because it's possibly the biggest actual wealth destructor from all tradeable assets. Compa…
What's the difference from any kind of resource extraction industry that produces waste heat in addition to the resource?
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only thing you're investing in is the wasting of the worlds energy supply. At best it's speculative.
All investment is speculative, you hope that the asset you acquire with your money is worth more in the future. With Crypto, you hope that the coins you acquire from it are worth more in the future. Same thing. Energy requirements of Bitcoin are a technical limitation, but as proof of stake is trying, that might just be a matter of time till it's minimized. Similarly, physical settlements today is also costly, moving…
It's not the same thing. When I invest in Apple, I'm in investing in a company, its people, and a product I use daily for work and pleasure. What does Bitcoin provide beyond the speculative nature of it? It's certainly not for making purchases when its value swings double digit percentages.
Re: S&P Dow Jones Indices to launch cryptocurrency indexes in 2021
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just as an aside, you cannot build the Bitcoin blockchain overnight as well - because of proof of work and network effects of bitcoin full nodes. That gives it "value". It's function is to serve as that - a store of value.
The difference to me is that gold is a precious metal with finite tangible volume. It can be used to create goods. So, there’s value there. But Bitcoin was designed to be a currency. Certainly the software is worth something. Or maybe nothing really. Look at other FOSS. As far as a currency goes though? I don’t want my currency to fluctuate. The idea of bargaining with an employer or client to pay me “more” this week…
The intrinsic value of gold (i
e. for jewellery/electronics uses) seems likely to be much less than the current market value of gold. So I don't think those limited use cases are a good explanation for gold's value.
Also, Bitcoin was not necessarily designed to replace every fiat currency for every single everyday spending use case and it's a strawman to imply that if it can't do then it's "dead on arrival". There are plenty of important possible use cases which don't presuppose the collapse of all fiat currencies.
Finally we don't really know the volatility of Bitcoin in the long term. It hasn't existed long enough. Looking at the price behavior in the first decade of its existence is not likely to give you a promising picture of any new asset class.