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Coronavirus and Credibility

paulgraham.com

531–540 of 968 posts

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#531
Honestly, it actually hasn't been materially worse than the flu yet. So this article's premise is basically worthless.

We have 70k dead as of 3/6/2020 and it's already slowing. The flu kills between 290,000 and 650,000 worldwide yearly, according to the WHO.

The actual "damage" this virus has "caused", which the flu doesn't, is the economic shock of everyone being forced at once to not go out and spend. We have rightly done this to save the weaker among us, at the great expense of the masses' financial future.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they both use the same scare statistics. (covid) 2 million Americans will die. (global warming) If we don't stop emitting CO2 the world will collapse by 2030.

You're exaggerating, which is just as bad. NYT reported that "200,000 to 1.7 million" people could die on March 13th [1]. Most of those calculations had to do with the fact that the hospital system would get overwhelmed at some point, compounding the deaths. None of that is "scare statistics". It's useful modeling. I think what you consider to be "scare statistics" is more lack of education. Similar to how people saw…

Do you realize that if the media write "could die", readers will interpret it as "will die" ?

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#533

In the background global warming is a much greater threat to human life and has the exact same dynamic with the exact same players . There is also zero introspection - the people who were wrong about covid-19 are simply denying they said what they said. The truly scary part is they are getting away with it in real time, and changing a large populations' memory of contemporary events. I realize it's hard to remember f…

PARTITION I OF II

It's time to drive a stake through the heart of this climate change alarmism, to kill off this dangerous monster forever. We can do a good job just in this little post.

Everything here is from just common sense or good references.

Overview

There is:

>ALARMIST CLAIM: Extra CO2 from current human activities will soon cause significant extra warming and, thus, climate change, a climate crisis, etc.

In one word, this claim is nonsense.

In simple terms:

(A) There is no serious evidence that CO2 from human activities at anything like probable concentrations will have any significant effect on the temperature or climate of the earth.

(B) The warming of maybe 0.9 F since year 1900 cannot have been caused by CO2.

(C) Human life was long burdened with nonsense from bad information, superstition, ignorance, and fear, but slowly science provided high quality information and means to reject the nonsense. The ALARMIST CLAIM is taking us back to the nonsense.

(D) Proposed efforts to respond to the ALARMIST CLAIM by reducing CO2 are from massively wasteful, strongly destructive, a shot in the gut of standards of living, economic contraction, and maybe to disasterous world wide economic depression and global nuclear WWIII.

There is some very good news:

>To respond to the ALARMIST CLAIM, there is NOTHING to do. NOTHING.

In music, the easiest note to play is just the rest -- make no sound. For responding to the ALARMIST CLAIM, the situation is similar: Do NOTHING and because there is nothing good to do.

The rest of this note is in three parts:

(I) Debunking

(II) Additional Points

(III) Alarmist Threats

(I) Debunking

Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but it is a long logical path from there to any claims of a significant effect.

We can debunk the ALARMIST CLAIM in just two easy steps, (I.1) from the historical data and (I.2) from the physics, next:

(I.1) Data from History

There is NOTHING in the climate history from the present back to about 1 million years ago that supports the ALARMIST CLAIM; there is NOTHING in that history that can support a claim that anything like realistic concentrations of CO2 from human activities will have any significant effect on temperatures. NOTHING. Here we give details in (i) -- (iii):

(i) For the ice core records going back ~1 million years, yes, both temperatures and CO2 concentrations went both up and down.

BUT, if we just look carefully at the big graph of that ice core record in Al Gore's movie (I assume the graph is essentially correct) and other graphs of that ice core data elsewhere, with high irony that graph totally destroys the ALARMIST CLAIM and Gore's claim from that graph: Gore badly misread the graph. The main point is that in the graph there is an 800 year delay; CO2 concentrations changed 800 years AFTER the temperature changes, from whatever cause.

Specifically: (a) When temperatures started increasing, from whatever cause, CO2 concentrations were LOW, not high. (b) About 800 years later CO2 concentrations were HIGH, from increased biological activity from the higher temperatures. (c) When temperatures started to fall, from whatever cause, CO2 concentrations were still HIGH, not low. (d) The HIGH CO2 concentrations did not keep the temperatures from falling. (e) Once the temperatures fell, about 800 years later so did CO2 concentrations. Net, CO2 did not cause the higher temperatures or keep the higher temperatures from falling.

(ii) In the last 2000 years we had the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, and there is not even a suggestion that CO2 concentration changes caused either.

(iii) Starting in the 1940s and through about 1970, we actually had some significant cooling, but in those years CO2 from human activities -- WWII, pulling out of the Great Depression, and the economic boom after WWII -- increased. So, with the additional CO2 from human activities, we got COOLING, not warming.

Net, there is NO data from the historical record that supports the claim that higher concentrations of CO2 will cause higher temperatures.

(I.2) Theory from Physics

Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. The absorption spectrum is at

https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?Spec=C124389&Index=0&...

So, CO2 absorbs in three narrow bands, one for each of bending, stretching, and twisting of the molecule, out in the infrared.

No, Tom Friedman of the NYT: CO2 does not absorb sunlight, and anyone can confirm this by looking at a source of CO2, e.g., exhaling or the bubbles from soda pop, and simply observing that the CO2 is not visible and does not cast a shadow.

Since the historical record can't support the ALARMIST CLAIM, to support the claim we would have to rely on the theory from physics, the absorption spectrum of CO2, and computation.

Well, the computations were done by dozens of teams, and the results are summarized in

http://www.energyadvocate.com/gc1.jpg

Net, as in this graph, nearly all the results predicted rapid, significant increases in temperatures soon. Well, the time of predicted increases came and went years ago with no sign of anything like the predicted increases.

In science, when predictions are made and found to be false, we junk the science.

No doubt, the failures in that graph are some of the worst in all the history of science. GOOD science, e.g., the hunt for and finding the Higgs boson at the LHC (Large Hadron Collider), the observations that confirmed the predictions of black holes, many other confirmed predictions of special and general relativity, the A-bomb, the H-bomb, the design of the Hubble telescope, to the quantum mechanics in semi-conductors that are the core of current digital electronics, the science was just rock solid.

We are just awash in super solid science, and the global warming computations in that graph are just a humiliation as anything scientific and just sick.

In summary of (I.1) -- (I.2):

> For the ALARMIST CLAIM, there is no scientific support.

(II) Additional Points

There is the video documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

(II.1) Big Changes Since 2000 Years Ago

That documentary argues that the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age were caused by variations in the rates of sun spots. More sun spots increase the solar wind which, from more links in a causal chain, in the end slows cloud formation and has a net warming effect.

Similarly, fewer sun spots can cause cooling.

(II.2) Warming Since Year 1900

In the video we can see the remarks of MIT Professor R. Lindzen that from "good theoretical reasons" any warming we might be getting now, e.g., maybe an increase in temperature of 0.9 F from year 1900 to the present, cannot be from CO2.

(II.3) Too Many Climate Scientists

Professor Lindzen also explains that there was suddenly an increase in funding for climate science from a hundred or so million dollars a year to over one billion dollars a year, funding that didn't just buy off the climate scientists but HIRED climate alarmists pretending to be climate scientists, maybe 10 times more alarmists than real scientists.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a friendly reminder that the consensus estimates about climate change have been reasonably accurate. Not perfect but decent enough as decision making tools. See for example the IPCC report from 1990: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPCC_First_Assessment_Report There have certainly been very dramatic (all overly well reported) warnings representing a minority of researchers which have not been accurate. These sho…

Sure. And while opinion polls are lagging, almost everyone in decision-making positions is on board with the minimal predictions in this report. (Even a lot of people normally considered climate change deniers are on board - according to Wikipedia, the report doesn't rule out that climate change is largely driven by natural variability!)

> the minimal predictions in this report

Those minimal predictions don't justify spending trillions of dollars on CO2 mitigation. They basically say "the climate is going to change, so be ready to deal with it".

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#535

In the background global warming is a much greater threat to human life and has the exact same dynamic with the exact same players . There is also zero introspection - the people who were wrong about covid-19 are simply denying they said what they said. The truly scary part is they are getting away with it in real time, and changing a large populations' memory of contemporary events. I realize it's hard to remember f…

> In the background global warming is a much greater threat to human life and has the exact same dynamic with the exact same players Oh, please, enough already! Global warming is nowhere near to what a virus can do. This thing could have killed half the population of this planet in weeks had nobody done a thing about it. The comparison is nonsensical on many fronts. Perhaps the most significant of them is the reality…

> This thing could have killed half the population of this planet in weeks had nobody done a thing about it.

What? No, there's not a single credible model that predicts that this virus could have wiped out half the population, even with 0 mitigation efforts. Such a virus is a possibility, but it certainly wasn't this one.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#536
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just goes to show that people will continue to ignore an exponential trend until it eats their lunch personally . FWIW, totally aside from that, CDC numbers for the "flu" are actually a combined "flu and pneumonia", and according to the NHS in the UK-- which doesn't bin the same way-- no more than 1/3rds of those deaths are due to the flu. Other estimates have put the flu well under 10% of flu+pneumonia, though with…

Isn’t all flu growth exponential over the season then dies down? Apparently Australia had a bad flu season last year: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7148553/Horror-grap...

Yes, seasonal flu starts exponentially, but people don't understand exponential growth and its limits.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#537
post #329

Its easy to focus on foxnews and pull all sorts of terrible content like that, but a more serious task is to look at a lot of the statements and confidence from the medical and scientific community early on - things around wearing masks in public and its inability to prevent spread, or UV light from the Sun and its ability to kill the virus (a popular statement projected by several doctors within the media), and seve…

The early talk about wearing masks struck me as particularly egregious. We were told: they don't help, you won't put it on properly, you'll just get yourself sick using it, you'll have a false sense of confidence.

That's what I kept seeing from the experts.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The China travel ban was ordered on Jan 28th and active on Feb 3rd. The WHO didn't confirm human transmission until Jan 25th... Some of many examples of the media in Jan and Feb: https://twitter.com/LizRNC/status/1245478539018805251?s=20 https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/01/31/how-our-br... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/europe/coronavirus-... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/03/the-flu-has-already-ki…

If you would have actually read those articles, you would see that the WaPo opinion piece does not actually downplay the coronavirus threat at all; it discusses the psychology of social panic. The NYT piece discusses how fear of coronavirus spread faster than the virus itself without any comment on the seriousness of the disease. The CNBC article does compare the flu to the coronavirus and does note the flu has alrea…

I'm sure you read all the articles in 5 minutes but either way the mental gymnastics you are going through to get around the headlines reading "How our brains make coronavirus seem scarier than it is" etc is truly impressive.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#539

In the background global warming is a much greater threat to human life and has the exact same dynamic with the exact same players . There is also zero introspection - the people who were wrong about covid-19 are simply denying they said what they said. The truly scary part is they are getting away with it in real time, and changing a large populations' memory of contemporary events. I realize it's hard to remember f…

PARTITION I OF II It's time to drive a stake through the heart of this climate change alarmism, to kill off this dangerous monster forever. We can do a good job just in this little post. Everything here is from just common sense or good references. Overview There is: >ALARMIST CLAIM: Extra CO2 from current human activities will soon cause significant extra warming and, thus, climate change, a climate crisis, etc. In…

PARTITION II OF II

(III) Alarmist Threats

The alarmists are proposing actions that are severe threats:

(III.1) Big Mistakes

For the issue of the ALARMIST CLAIM and quite generally, if we are willing to go forward with big disruptive, risky changes without good evidence, then we are leaving ourselves open to nonsense from bad information, superstition, ignorance, and fear and neglecting the science that provided high quality information and means to reject the nonsense, leaving ourselves open to some of the biggest mistakes in all of civilization.

Here we mention two such mistakes:

(III.1.1) Chinese Medicine

A current example of such mistakes is killing off the rhinoceroses to get their horns for use in Chinese medicine.

(III.1.2) Bloody Mayan Charlatans

Another such mistake is from page 76 of

Susan Milbrath, Star Gods of the Maya: Astronomy in Art, Folklore, and Calendars (The Linda Schele Series in Maya and Pre-Columbian Studies), ISBN-13 978-0292752269, University of Texas Press, 2000.

with

> Indeed, blood sacrifice is required for the sun to move, according to Aztec cosmology (Durian 1971:179; Sahaguin 1950 - 1982, 7:8).

That is, the Mayan charlatans killed people to pour their blood on a rock to keep the sun moving across the sky. No doubt the sun actually did keep moving across the sky.

If from the ALARMIST CLAIM we go forward with the alarmist proposals (see below), then we will be making a mistake as big, dangerous, and irrational as in (III.1.1) the Chinese medicine and (III.1.2) the Mayans.

(III.2) Costs

(III.2.1) Replacing Current Fossil Fueled Equipment

The climate alarmists would force us to replace fossil fueled vehicles and to replace building heating with electric powered equipment.

The vehicles they would force us to replace include cars, trucks, farm tractors, big earth moving equipment, locomotives, and ships.

The climate alarmists would force us to replace fossil fueled electric power generation with wind, solar, etc.

Emergency electric generators are most easily powered with fossil fuels -- natural gas, gasoline, or Diesel oil -- and would be difficult and expensive to replace with anything that would please the climate alarmists.

(III.2.2) Unreliable Renewables

Electric power from wind and solar needs huge, expensive batteries and can still be unreliable and cause power instabilities on an electric grid. The instabilities and protecting against them would be expensive. Electric rates would stand to go up significantly.

(III.2.3) Green New Deal

As in

https://cei.org/blog/how-much-will-green-new-deal-cost-your-...

the Green New Deal is estimated to cost $90+ trillion.

That much spending would massively disrupt the whole US economy and, indirectly but significantly, nearly all the economies of the world.

(III.3) Standard of Living

The costs of the proposals of the climate alarmists would devastate the standard of living in the US.

As in the video documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle, the effects on poor countries, e.g., essentially all of Africa trying to develop their economies, would stop their progress and push them back in time.

(III.4) World Economic Stability

The proposals of the climate alarmists would so disrupt the economies of the world so strongly that the world economy could go unstable leading to WWIII and, then, global nuclear war.

Warning

It appears that now the sun is entering the part of the 11 year or so sunspot cycle with fewer sun spots. So, we are in line for a few years of cooling. So, don't believe a claim of the global warming alarmists that their efforts caused the cooling.

Main Conclusion

At this point, continuing with entertaining the ALARMIST CLAIM is just nonsense, expensive, destructive, dangerous nonsense.

Re: Coronavirus and Credibility

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth pointing out that Trump gave this order the day after or during the impeachment trial when it was risky for him to do so. edit: None of this matters though because orange man bad.

Wait, wasn't your "but orange man bad" classic twitter response good enough? Why'd you edit it? "When it was risky for him to do so." Trump just got a get out of jail free card and absolute impunity and immunity to do anything he wanted. Since he's fired a number of people in the most brazen display of corruption in US history. Risky? There was zero risk. Yes, orange man is bad. He's historically bad. He is a thin-sk…

So you don't think travel from China should have been shutdown until later?
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