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Why Enterprise Software Sucks

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Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#531
post #521

I worked at a school that used the Frog VLE. There was a big push for us to use it for student assessment. I tried, I honestly did. 1. I used it to set homework assignments. 2. .py files were blocked and students couldn't upload them. 3. They submitted code as .txt instead. 4. I'd click on my class to view submissions, it showed the top 5 submissions. 5. I'd click on a submission and it would download. 6. I'd view th…

I adhere to "dogfooding": use what you make, and use it seriously. Then you'll understand what design documents so often fail to communicate. Programmers and certainly architects should get onto the work floor, and actually participate in the job, preferably before starting their "real" work, but certainly afterwards.

The unfortunate part with enterprise software, is that in the end its all bought on tender basis. Every minute the programmers and architects spend participating in the actual job, they do not spend creating new features. So your product will either have less features than the competition, or your product will cost more than the competition.

Dogfooding enterprise software is mostly impossible, since the people developing it are pushed to deliver features, because that is what administrators/managers use to choose between software. They don't care about usability, because it is not something tangible you can check.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just give me ISO8601 dates, please; HackerNews, you, too! Strongly seconding. It's an annoying UX antipattern, especially as it loses precision over time ("28 minutes ago" is fine, but "yesterday" or "5 days ago" or - even worse - "2 years ago" is not; having the date specified to hours or minutes is actually useful, especially in context of a site with international audience). Doubly so on HN, which doesn't even b…

I prefer the HN method of 28 min, yesterday, 2 hours ago, etc... for HN. The older a comment or post, the less relevant it is to a particular discussion. This site is for real-time discussions of articles, so it is optimized for that use-case. The older a comment, the less relevant it is towards the immediate discussion. Thus, older comments have less precision, because those details don't matter for the discussion.…

It's hard to be sure this isn't satire.

You mentioned 'for HN' twice in the same sentence.

Your 2nd, 4th, and 5th sentence all try to assert the same thing - older comments are less relevant than newer comments - despite there being no evidence, anywhere, that this is the case. Your 3rd sentence is partly true, though there's some historical record aspect to HN comment threads that you're discounting.

Your second paragraph is a non sequitur. Sites that correlate points in time with timestamps are ubiquitous, and there's rarely a compelling case for using wildly different approaches to displaying same.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#533
post #380

I worked at a school that used the Frog VLE. There was a big push for us to use it for student assessment. I tried, I honestly did. 1. I used it to set homework assignments. 2. .py files were blocked and students couldn't upload them. 3. They submitted code as .txt instead. 4. I'd click on my class to view submissions, it showed the top 5 submissions. 5. I'd click on a submission and it would download. 6. I'd view th…

And, to be clear, this has nothing to do with "classroom". The problem is people design these things without any sort of actual testing in actual conditions where the software is supposed to be used. Displaying 5 results per page is a bug, not a feature. Having restrictions on filetypes is a bug, not a feature. The same could go on to the rest of their "features". (My biggest pet peeve is date formatting — just give…

HN? Let Oracle and SQL Server databases start using that without one forcing them to. There's a long list of stuff to be bothered with before even looking at HN.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#535
post #326
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this does completely get it right. Enterprises thought they needed all the control and security features of Blackberry until the iPhone came along and made the UX gap unsustainable. Enterprises thought they needed on-premise hosting of Exchange, Office and SharePoint instances under their control for email and productivity, until GSuite came up with a better, less configurable user experience based on consumer fe…

>No, this does completely get it right. Enterprises thought they needed all the control and security features of Blackberry until the iPhone came along and made the UX gap unsustainable. The iPhone took almost a decade to get to the appropriate functionality. The part you're leaving out is most executives just ended up carrying two devices and whined to IT about "why can't YOU make my iphone as good at email as my bl…

Skype for business makes me think of one of Guy Kawasaki’s 3 reasons for a business to exist: to right a wrong.

Skype for business is an abomination, it’s morally wrong, it’s an evil that must die.

I’m hoping Zoom can murder it viciously.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#536
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every popular computer OS except android has an ssh client now. Just give the students and professors shells and have them put the documents in shared folders.

This is kind of a manifestation of this agency problem, though. We, presumably the people that would write this theoretical software, have a vastly different background than the people who will use the software (general students, not just CS students). SSH is perfect for us; it's a well known and supported tool that's shared in countless other workflows. Can you imagine the struggles of an Art History student trying…

It’s common among chemistry students because of the incredibly expensive Unix software they use for calculating eg molecular orbitals. I’ve gone to their meetings and listened to them, they know little about computers and are taught to use ssh.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#537
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every popular computer OS except android has an ssh client now. Just give the students and professors shells and have them put the documents in shared folders.

Android has a few of those too. Heck, there's an ssh server for Android.

Android doesn’t include an ssh client in the distribution.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#538
In my opinion it sucks, because people, who write it screw up even the most simple things. In a lot of such software, you will get a search field for something. Rarely the search field will work as you expect. Here are three examples (beware, rant starting):

1. Windows search: It will sometimes not find what you are looking for, because it is not able to at least do a "string contains" check, if there are no other results found. How stupid is that? Glad I don't have to use Windows unless I am trying to solve a problem for someone who uses Windows.

2. Confluence wiki: Nope, sometimes you will simply not find that page, with some word in the title, which you input into the search field. Too stupid a software, to simple check for string contains. Oh and also sometimes your search does not work at all, because some service of Atlassian is offline.

3. Friend of mine did some work for an insurance company. They had a software to look up customers. You think you could easily find someone by looking for their first or last name? Nope, he had to enter an additional space after the first name, to be able to find the person, which of course was confusing.

So, I as a single person have coded in some projects search fields for applications, but some huge company with dozens or more developers cannot get a simple search field right, while I as a single person can write a search, that allows incremental searching and is functionally complete with "not", "or" and "and" operations on objects. Somehow I doubt the capabilities of the engineers, who wrote the logic for those search fields in the examples I mentioned.

There is also other things wrong with Confluence Wiki:

A while ago they claimed to now support Markdown in their editor. Well, it was a not even half-assed support of Markdown, as most of the things I tried to type in Markdown did not convert to the respective rendered elements. To this day, the editor they have just sucks at Markdown and at times behaves unpredictably. I despise having to put anything in the wiki, because of it's buggyness, sluggishness and bad support for Markdown. How difficult can it be to give me a simple editor and let me type Markdown or another sensible format?

My personal blog has a better Markdown parser, than Confluence Wiki and I did not even have to write it myself.

My self-written wiki uses reStructuredText files for pages, simply put in a directory tree, which gets me document internal linking and cross references to other pages of the wiki and the ability to simply put the wiki into a git repository and have everything version controlled. Oh btw. version control is also F*ed up in Confluence Wiki. Also I can simply "export" any page, by copying its file, while in Confluence Wiki, you cannot even get a proper export of a page. This is of course intentional, to keep customers stuck in their Wiki. No way, that they provide simple means of migrating away. No, better to hold the user captive in their BS software.

I have to agree with some other comment here, which mentioned, that the problem is, that the buyers are not the users. I would happily give my own wiki implementation to people at the job, but people, who make the decision on what is used think, that Confluence Wiki will be better than anything a single person can come up with.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#539
post #527

I write enterprise software for fortune 100 companies. If I put myself in the user’s shoes and had an alternative, I’d most likely uninstall what we built and jump ship. But they can’t. It’s an internal app and the user is forced to use it. I try and fight for what’s right but if I had a dollar everytime I heard “ we aren’t google/amazon” , “only xx people will use it”, “we are just doing this to get off the old tech…

So rewriting in a different framework has higher priority then userability? What will the new framework improve?

Exactly. It doesn’t improve anything other than sun setting old tech that is no longer viable to support.

Re: Why Enterprise Software Sucks

#540
I really love this thread!

I spent a few years doing indie game development, and one of this biggest lessons that stuck with me was how to think about a product as an experience. To me, game design was mostly that, but focused on making the experience fun, I guess. A huge amount of time and effort went into thinking about what the end user's experience would be like. By instinct, I tend to lean on thinking about the "player's" experience.

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