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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#531

Post by CydeWeys »

lettergram wrote: post #469
thosakwe wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. So, a separate number being added to College Board's overall package is secret discrimination against Asian students? The "adversity score," according to the article, is calculated based on 15 different factors. The two listed (relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate/poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood) are not directly tied to…

> I know that promoting affirmative action is tantamount to blasphemy on this site, but let's be honest here. Yes, let's be honest! I was from one of those locations where "adversity" would have benefited me. Worst school district in the state, low income, etc. I am and I suspect will continue to be upset that the harder I work, the less benefit I receive. I pulled myself out of that situation. People in similar situ…

> I am and I suspect will continue to be upset that the harder I work, the less benefit I receive .

It seems logical and reasonable to give more help to those who need it more. And realistically, you're always going to be way better off by maximizing your own success (even if it means you might get less help) than by minimizing your own success and maximally relying on help. A life lived solely on assistance isn't really a pleasant one.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#532

Post by spamizbad »

manfredo wrote: post #523
spamizbad wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for private universities it's a big blow to the institution's reputations for all but the most objectionable speakers. Numerous private universities (Christian schools in particular) enforce strict student code of conduct rules that severely limit the student body's freedom of expression as to way to enforce religious or secular compliance. And it doesn't hurt their reputation but instead is an integral compone…

> Numerous private universities (Christian schools in particular) enforce strict student code of conduct rules that severely limit the student body's freedom of expression as to way to enforce religious or secular compliance. And it doesn't hurt their reputation but instead is an integral component of the school's identity. Perhaps you're coming from a different cultural context than, but in my circles such universit…

> Some people don't even consider applicants from BYU, and other heavily religious universities because they don't want to reward such institutions.

That's just religious discrimination cloaked in something less intolerable: academic elitism. HBCUs probably face a similar problem: should we abolish or enforce strict racial quotes on them because there are racists who will toss a resume with Howard University on it?

> For public universities, the First Amendment legally obligates them otherwise.

This is absolutely true. But to your broader point, that freedom of expression yields greater institutional cache: how do you explain the strong performance (and reputation) of private institutions vs. "state schools"?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#533

Post by darawk »

jhayward wrote: post #521
darawk wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The adversity score looks at things like the crime rate of the neighborhood you grew up in. That neighborhood is (primarily) a function of two things: Your parents income level, and their ability to prioritize what income they do have to make sure you're in a good neighborhood. The second thing is what's being de-valued. Some parents work really hard and pinch every penny to devote resources to their kid's educ…

> Your parents income level, and their ability to prioritize what income they do have to make sure you're in a good neighborhood. The second thing is what's being de-valued. So, you're saying that people who have the misfortune to have parents who can't do those things for them should suffer a handicap, right? How well you are able to compete for a slot in college should depend on who your parents are?

> So, you're saying that people who have the misfortune to have parents who can't do those things for them should suffer a handicap, right?

Yes, for the reasons that I outlined. If you don't reward kids for their parents investment, their parents won't invest, and that will be worse for everyone.

If you spending 1 hour or 10 hours teaching your kids at night makes no difference to their life outcomes, which will you choose?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#534

Post by lenkite »

tankerdude wrote: post #372
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

From the article: "The score will be calculated using 15 factors, including the relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate and poverty level of the student’s neighborhood." So no, it doesn't account for you to secretly discriminate against you. What it does do, for the penalization part, is that the schools that are in affluent neighborhoods have access to much better resources than ones from Co…

Just to get this right - to get a better SAT adversity score for their children, parents should ideally quit their job, survive on tax-payer welfare and live in a high-crime area ? This is now fully incentivized right ?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#535

Post by Apocryphon »

aabajian wrote: post #522

I'll play devil's advocate. I went to a public high school that served a large area (it's Rim of the World High in Southern California in case anyone is curious). It's the only high school in the mountains, and services "poorer" areas like Crestline and "wealthier" areas like Lake Arrowhead. To my knowledge, I was one of the only honors kids from Crestline. My morning consisted of getting up at 5:30 am and taking a 4…

Through the college admissions essay

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#536

Post by ryanobjc »

remote_phone wrote: post #478
jachee wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is giving underprivileged people a leg up "punishing" anyone? Privileged people need to start recognizing their inherent pre-rigging of the system. For those in power, equality feels like oppression.

Pre-rigging? I’ve worked my ass off for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We are both smart and very hard working and it paid off. My roots are middle class at best. My parents are immigrants and were extremely poor as children but they also worked hard and went from poverty to middle class. I’m teaching my children to work hard and be good people and contribute to this world. How pray tell am I benefiting from “pre-r…

So, some kids from crappy schools and neighborhoods will get into college, when they might not otherwise, presumably taking the place of you/your children, who have “made solid decisions” and “worked my ass off for 30 years” who deserve it more? Because you/they worked harder?

Ok. Cool. Just want to make sure I understand.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#537

Post by cljs-js-eval »

Because it appears that no news outlet wants to link to the actual dashboard:

https://secure-media.collegeboard.org/digitalServices/pdf/pr...

Looks like they try to account for neighborhood environment, family environment, and high school environment. Seems a bit fairer than I expected, assuming family environment is given the weight it deserves. Otherwise it may penalize people who try to go to a better school or a better neighborhood.

Also looks like a play to sell a dashboard. Maybe related to the regulatory environment of colleges - they can prove they're selecting across a broad enough socioeconomic stratus, similar to how banks like to prove they're meeting HUD requirements for lending.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#538

Post by kaitai »

darawk wrote: post #510
kaitai wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you spell out how it devalues the efforts of parents to improve their children's education?

Sure. The adversity score looks at things like the crime rate of the neighborhood you grew up in. That neighborhood is (primarily) a function of two things: Your parents income level, and their ability to prioritize what income they do have to make sure you're in a good neighborhood. The second thing is what's being de-valued. Some parents work really hard and pinch every penny to devote resources to their kid's educ…

To be clear then, you're not actually talking about quality of education (tutoring, robotics teams, mock trial, great teachers, enrichment activities, science museum trips, history competitions). As you say, it's "ability to prioritize what income they do have to make sure you're in a good neighborhood". Your primary problem with this, then,is that it devalues the ability to move into rich neighborhoods.

How does the ability to move into a rich neighborhood correlate with college success? I teach math, so that would be a great place to give an example.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#539

Post by sokoloff »

chatmasta wrote: post #163
neilv wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking to someone who's been involved in elite university admissions, and gaming for the city/neighborhood/HS has been a known tactic for a while. There's a related tactic for people in affluent suburbs, for getting their child into urban school districts with an especially well-regarded primary public school: buy a house or condo in the city, and try to make it look on your application like that's your primar…

At that point why not just send your kids to a private school?

Money. Private schools can be $40K or more (after taxes) per child per year. You can get a lot of real estate for that money instead in a lot of markets.
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