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Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

nytimes.com

531–540 of 632 posts

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's said that you need to do 3 things in America to avoid poverty. 1. Graduate High School 2. Work full-time 3. Don't have a baby out of wedlock It's that easy.

Exactly. Unfortunately many fail at step 1.

I see people failing across all 3, often even at the same time. It's a recipe for disaster.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#532
post #506

It's not like meritocracy is completely unrelated to real life, it matters in a certain regime. However, if like Vanessa, you're born to lesser circumstances, you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. Similarly, if you are born to very well off standards, even if you're a dope and spend money from Dad's inheritance on cocaine, sure, you won't be successful but you'll still have a net of some kind. You ca…

You can escape poverty by working harder; it is just that working harder will not always work. It needs to be coupled with other virtues; of course the solution is not just simply to work harder, but to suggest that working harder is not a great deal part of the solution is false by every measure. Lets say this, you are born into a poor family - you still get to go to school that likely has a great library - the scho…

> My observation is that the poor just throw more trash on the ground, they don't make their beds, they live in filthy or cluttered houses

That also matches rich kids going through college. It's hardly an indicator of anything in my opinion.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can flip it: > Why hasnt the government solved this problem? Maybe the government is not a good tool to solve inequality? After all, what percentage of your salary before taxes goes to directly help the less fortunate with no middleman? Before you answer: You could probably do more.

The government abides by the rules of the market, banks and corporations. A truly independent government could be different.

The market abides by the confiscatory currency regime the government creates - print money, give it to banks cronies, over time make things disproportionately expensive for the little guy.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really hyper opportunity, it is impact. Impact is the reason why an elementary school teacher gets paid in the low-to-mid 5 figures and a professional ball player can get paid 7 figures. Usually, a school teacher has 20-30 kids in their classroom, while a professional ball player can indirectly influence tens of thousands of kids and adults in their "buying" decisions. Impact is why Franz Schubert died poor…

Yes I agree to all of that except you're missing out on power and market power. The biggest winners will be investors in tech, not employees, who will do well, but not as well as capital FYI.

Kind of like a modern update on Karl Marx's "those who own the means of production are the capitalist class". A Modern update because "means of production" back when it was written meant non-human assets (e.g. machines) and the tech industry is clearly harnessing the collective effort of human assets now.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#535
post #506

It's not like meritocracy is completely unrelated to real life, it matters in a certain regime. However, if like Vanessa, you're born to lesser circumstances, you just cannot escape poverty by just working harder. Similarly, if you are born to very well off standards, even if you're a dope and spend money from Dad's inheritance on cocaine, sure, you won't be successful but you'll still have a net of some kind. You ca…

You can escape poverty by working harder; it is just that working harder will not always work. It needs to be coupled with other virtues; of course the solution is not just simply to work harder, but to suggest that working harder is not a great deal part of the solution is false by every measure. Lets say this, you are born into a poor family - you still get to go to school that likely has a great library - the scho…

I'm not actually poor and I don't make my bed.

My house is cluttered, mostly because I'm frugal and we live in a house that is a bit too small for our hobbies (art for me, music for the spouse, though we both dabble in the other). I have more money this way.

I'm lazy.

And honeslty, the only time I've really gotten crap for this type of thing is when I'm poor and honestly too freaking tired to do any of this stuff. THere is nothing quite like working for 8 hours, using feet for transportation, and not being able to actually feed yourself well enough to have energy nor keep your house warm enough in the winter to do much. (I kept multiple blankets on). It is really easy to just give up. I wouldn't have gotten anywhere without some help and getting really freaking lucky.

Many schools do not have a great library. That have a library adequate to the school needs. Being able to use said library at school is sometimes difficult. By the time I was in high school, the library was a rare treat in class. They weren't open after school. You could not go there during lunch. My senior year, the school I went to changed and sometimes you could go there during home room period. Before that, not really: It was only 15 minutes most times anyway.

Not everyone has a public library to use either, and even when you do, good luck. You might need transportation.

I will also assume you are talking about older children. Most 13-year olds just don't have a lot of maturity for what you describe. Perhaps a 16 or 17 year old, and hopefully they aren't so poor that they have to work to help support their family or take care of their younger siblings while their parents work.

All in all, it really kind of seems out of touch and looking from the outside in instead of the other way around.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#536
Most people dont even realize the real problems every poor family experiencing. I mean some people don't even have heat on a winter day. You can't even read a book on these circumstances, your body is under panic and you can't focus. I've been there, best way to survive is your friends and family and what I called reality-escape things like movies, music, art, games, creativity and NOT drugs. Some people prefer drugs or alcohol for the same reason, cause they can't escape using our nature's build-in tools. You may be rich one day but it's all about luck. It's easy to pursue something only if you have a healthy environment.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Servers still have to receive the standard minimum wage. If their tips don’t bring them up to that level, their employer has to make up the difference. Of course, not all employers follow the law, but that’s the requirement.

On a related note, wouldn't an employer likely fire a server that doesn't earn enough tips, say, two months in their employment?

Hell yeah they can. At will work states and all.

The other states just have to find a reason to can them so i imagine its "somewhat" more difficult.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#538
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, unless you force a dog which hunted its bone to share it with one who slept the whole day, and call it "equality".

Sleeping the whole day is an interesting metaphor for living off of charity or being homeless, two demographics notorious for being unhappier than the working population on average. Did you choose it because spending whole days in bed is a classic symptom of depression,the illness that makes one unhappier than the average employee? I'm not sure transfering money from the later to the former would correct the inequali…

Having no ability to read your mind, I cannot tell of you are trying to invent an alternative meaning of my comment to beat a strawman, or you are really a great poet.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#539

If there are only 19 bones for every 20 dogs, then it doesn't matter how good a bone hunter they all are there will always be one dog disappointed and the other 19 will be grateful for the bone no matter how thin and weedy it is. Systemically the 'interest rate targeting' approach starts to tighten up policy when unemployment gets below 5% - which they consider 'full employment' even though 1 in 20 haven't got jobs.…

The economy is not a fixed sum. Wealth can be created and destroyed.

Re: Americans Want to Believe Jobs Are the Solution to Poverty. They’re Not

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one part of the problem, but I think you are being hyperbolic in describing it as the key. In many countries single parents (or single income families) are not automatically poor. Having a single income (at minimum wage) be above the poverty/food stamp line would be a start. Sick/carers leave and subsidised childcare also have huge impacts in allowing mothers to retain higher paying jobs. The real question is…

Because the American philosophy is that people who make good decisions should not have to subsidize the poor decision making of others. America has a significant social safety net, but should responsible citizens pay for the upkeep of someone who has multiple children out of wedlock before the age of 20 without any means to support those children? Absolutely not. People must take responsibility for their own actions.

Kids don‘t ask to be born, they don’t choose poor parents.
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