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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#531

Post by King-Aaron »

wilsonnb wrote: post #392
whatshisface wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it bother you that you're being tracked?

I'm not the person you're asking this question to, but I thought I'd reply anyways. No, it doesn't really bother me. Why would anyone care that I get up around 7AM on weekdays, drive to work around 9, stay there until 5, and then drive home? On weekends they will see me going to Target and the grocery store. Sometimes another store. Sometimes I go to visit my family in another city. I really don't care if people have…

I wonder how many of the 16-million East Germans had this same utopian outlook on it..

Edit: While things are "good", I'm sure you and a lot of others don't see an issue. But you're giving yourself a lot of rope to be hung on if ever things become hard.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#532

Post by dredmorbius »

ataturk wrote: post #2

It's so strange--I never would have expected the boot of tyranny to come from private corporations, but here we are. And what all this proves is that technology is value-neutral and can wipe us all out, or just make us incredibly miserable, if we let it. Hopefully there will be a way to opt out. Otherwise, I should start selling faraday bags for devices. Probably should anyways.

Go read some history. Power is Power, and will wear any damned guise it wants.

Corporations, criminals, monarchies, democracies, Fascists, Communists, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Confucists, Goths, Huns, Romams, Macedonians, Persians, Greeks, Trojans, Hittites, Israelites, etc., etc., etc., have slaughtered, sacked, enslaved, oppressed, or dehumanised others, all in the name of temporary gain.

The British East India company had armies. Wyoming cattlemen funded a mercenary army in the Johnson Count War. Coal wars in Apallachia and Colorado. U.S. Steel, Standard Oil, the Pullman Company, the L.A. Times, Union Carbide in Bhopal, oil companies throughout the US, Middle-east, Indonesia, and Africa. Fruit companies in Latin America. Sugar, tobacco, and cotton plantations. Coal mines in Wales. The Kochs today.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#534

Post by Intermernet »

ethbro wrote: post #468
apozem wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talk to a congressperson who knows about cyber like Ron Wyden.

FFS. "Cyber" is an adjective. Not a noun. Just because the less-technically adept parts of the infosec community & even more hapless government workers wanted to sound cool doesn't suddenly make it right.

Language just got cybered.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#535

Post by kalleboo »

sjs7007 wrote: post #506
wpietri wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who want to try out LocationSmart, you can use it here: https://www.locationsmart.com/try/ They were about two blocks off, and located me by cell tower. Apparently they don't have (or at least don't admit to having) A-GPS level data for me.

Just tried it and was pretty accurate for me as well. How is it even legal for our cell phone providers to sell this data...?

You agreed to it when you signed the terms of service

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#536

Post by dredmorbius »

JudasGoat wrote: post #453

It is very tempting to go full "tin foil hat" at this point. I am seriously considering removing my cell battery and powering it up semi hourly to check for messages.

How much do you typically move in 30 minutes?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#537

Post by userbinator »

dude123456 wrote: post #77
gruez wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually not in software but by contract, one gives gps data to all the others as part of the bill of materials. so what's the flow here? is it something like this?: phone gps -> manufacturer installed…

some of crapware can be avoided by using custom ROMs, but not all of it. For example: Qualcomm IZat location services and other location-based trustzone applets remain running even on custom ROMs.

You seem to be quite familiar with Qualcomm, but do you know if there's anything similar in Mediatek SoCs? They do have assisted GPS ("A-GPS"/"EPO") but from the info I can find (including leaked very thorough datasheets and programming manuals), it does nothing more than downloading already-public ephemeris data from an FTP server periodically. I've also inspected the firmware, and there doesn't appear to be any traces of the TrustZone/Trustonic stuff that you mention is present for Qualcomm; AFAICS the only thing running on the main CPU cores is Android itself, the modem runs its own baseband firmware, and the GPS/WiFi/BT/FM combo chip (which is a physically separate part, accessed over a serial interface with no direct DMA capabilities) runs a third firmware. Any "secure boot" features in MTK SoCs are (fortunately?) not very secure, so it's all quite easy to inspect.

There's some bits of interesting info here:

https://github.com/cyrozap/mediatek-lte-baseband-re

https://postmarketos.org/blog/2018/04/14/lowlevel/

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#538

Post by 8bitsrule »

fixermark wrote: post #262
Mononokay wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel guilt over creating them?

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

It would be better if they did, yes.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#539

Post by dredmorbius »

kevin_b_er wrote: post #154
gpvos wrote: post #5

> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act only restricts telecom companies from disclosing data to the government. It doesn't restrict disclosure to other companies Clearly the US has their priorities completely the wrong way.

To corporations, you have no inalienable rights. They're just more things to be bought and sold.

Actually, not true by the defnition of inalienable right: something of which you may be deprived, but no other person may gain.

It is possible to take from you real or chattel property, funds, papers, etc., and give them to another. Your life (though no longer your organs and tissues), your liberty, your happiness, not so.

Those are inalienable in that they cannot exist seperate frome you.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#540

Post by code_duck »

ZainRiz wrote: post #456
lallysingh wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Screw that. Put together a consumer stalking website, sell the data directly. Advertise, make tons of money, and let the outrage from that bring light to the entire industry.

And then be the only one sent to jail as the scapegoat for the rest

Move to Myanmar first?
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