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How poverty changes your mindset

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531–540 of 559 posts

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#531
post #358
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find the entire thing annoying in the extreme because I have a Patreon account to help fund my blogging and I completely suck at promoting that. > I sincerely appreciate it anytime anyone actually kicks a few bucks my way when I am in crisis. But I would much prefer that people take me seriously, fund my Patreon and/or hire me for paid writing so that bitching about my shit life on the internet can stop being one…

that's so American in so many ways...

I'm not American FWIW, but please explain what you mean?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#532

I hate seeing people's comments on stories around this topic. I grew up in poverty and food stamps from time to time. My dad was a roughneck and when the oil bust happened in the 80's there was a time we lived out of our car -- my whole family. here was literally nothing to do in the oil patch during that bust. There was literally no work. But people don't understand true hopelessness. My dad did everything he could…

> We live in a society though that thinks someone else is going to take care of the problems.

It's worse than this. Now society thinks that government is going to take care of the problems. The past fifty years and the War on Poverty have shown us how well that works. I wish that, instead of spending more untold billions on new programs and bureaucracies, government would switch to facilitating citizens to create, man, and implement the help that is so sorely needed by the poor and helpless. Encourage the citizenry to take personal responsibility for helping others, instead of offering an easy out to do nothing.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who publicly offer assistance usually wind up really pissed off at me if I rudely try to take them up on it. And goodness forbid you need more than the bare essentials, like a car, home, etc.

Yes, the public offers to help me eat when I am flat broke drive me crazy because when I talk about being unable to make adequate income as a writer, that gets dismissed as "meh, sucks to be you." People use ad blocker, tell me Patreon is charity and expect good content to be free. Then I get pity money* once in a while when things are really bad. And it's like, hello? 2+2=4. Can you not see how these issues are rela…

Perhaps writing is a poor choice of profession for someone who desires a stable income.

I would rather be at the beach, but instead I'm stuck here in an office.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think FEMA has a reputation for having borderline paranoia. If anything, FEMA tends to grossly underestimate the impact of the incidents they may respond to; the public tends to grossly overestimate FEMA's capacity and interests in doing what is ultimately, for every animal and man since the dawn of time, their own job and no one else's.

> doing what is ultimately, for every animal and man since the dawn of time, their own job and no one else's. I think that's a bit harsh. Civilization gives us infrastructure to live safely in very densely populated areas. When that infrastructure fails it doesn't seem fair to just say: "Now it's up to you like it was up to your ancestors. It doesn't matter that they didn't live in a spot where they had 100k other ho…

> I think that's a bit harsh. Civilization gives us infrastructure to live safely in very densely populated areas.

Civilization allowing you to live without regular incidents is different from it allowing you to live safely. The marks of civilization (namely density) become liabilities when things go very wrong. In many ways, it's up to you in ways your ancestors never had to deal with: more things in civilization burn, crush, lacerate, and impale people when they fail than in nature, and nature had plenty of these to begin with.

A sense of safety built on the responsibilities of others is false, I think. Ideally we all do our jobs when the going gets tough, but in reality, you're surrounded by cowards who would rather watch you and yours die than put themselves in danger (see the recent mass shooting, where four deputies basically just stood outside for the duration of the attack), and in some sense, who could blame them?

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#536
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't drop money on a spanking new car even though I can afford to and all my peers drive Audis or whatever, but I feel just OK with my over 100k Civic just because I like not having a loan on my head. Needing a loan ≠ can afford to. Many people do not understand this simple fact.

Really... so you wouldn't take out a mortgage to buy your house?

I’m not entirely sure, maybe I will do that someday, but I’m certainly not comfortable with the idea. And I find it interesting how normal that is and how people don’t seem to think it’s a big deal.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, we're discussing homeless people with mental issues, and not people who aren't homeless. The homeless have less access to resources than a non-homeless person with family and friends. > It is important to give someone a stable and loving and validating environment for them to be able to recover. There are several kinds of people who, while they talk to themselves, really just have their symptoms exacerba…

Yes, there are. The only real difference between a mentally ill homeless person and a normal mentally ill person is the home. Why wouldn't a stable home be the answer? A short-term stay in a mental hospital might be necessary while getting the patient adjusted to their medication. But once someone is stable, there is no need for such things. Even though the institutions have changed, they are still pretty horrible pl…

> The only real difference between a mentally ill homeless person and a normal mentally ill person is the home. Why wouldn't a stable home be the answer?

if the mental illness is as serious as schizophrenia, a home isn't enough. The issue isn't just about the mentally ill person's welfare, but also if that person poses a danger to others who live nearby. There is a strong correlation between schizophrenia and violent crime. Without treatment in a controlled environment like a mental hospital, it's hard to see a mentally ill homeless person being able to safely integrate with society when they also lack a family and friends support network.

> I was his primary caregiver, fair or not, and his doctor didn't want him living alone for his own protection.

This is the issue. The homeless will not have the luxury of having a caregiver to be able to live independently at least initially. I'm sure why it's so hard for people to accept that the homeless people, who also have mental issues, just don't have access to the same resources that a non-homeless person with mental issues has access to.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#538

A lot of great stories in this thread, a lot of them are quite disheartening US stories of poverty. Mine was the opposite, really. Grew up as a welfare-kid in Western-Europe with a disabled dad and a sibling. The state provided for us, the three of us made do with about $1200 (roughly the $7.50 minimum wage in the US at a 40h 52w work schedule) or so in today's money, living in the capital city so rent and insurance…

Can I ask you which European state are you talking about?

Netherlands

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I try to maintain the same lifestyle no matter how much I do or don't have. Once you adjust your spending habits, it's very difficult to change them. I just think out what makes sense, how far I have to be happy, then build a routine around sensible choices. Half of the time, the sensible choices are the healthiest anyway (like taking lunch to work vs fattening fast food). Nailed it on the head that ration…

I agree with all you said - I could have written it myself. But I do suspect that, like myself, you are well-educated and probably from a stable home with parents that were good role models. Someone whose home life was chaos probably wasn't lucky enough to been demonstrated those life skills. It's sad, but I don't want to pay for people making totally avoidable bad decisions. I don't know the solution but whatever we…

Yes and no on my background. My immediate family can only be defined as white trash, which from a parental point of view I'd define as- simply do not care what happens to their kids. It was an oppressive patriarchy for sure, my dad was concerned with himself and not my mom or his kids. He came first, and that was the end of it. Very ignored, and tormented daily in my house physically and verbally by a sibling. Even facing violent confrontations into my 20s. I had to punch my brother to the floor at 25, who for essentially no reason started swinging at me, in front of our mom. It never ended, till I cut them all off in just the past couple years. Enough is enough once the same patterns continue into middle age, they're incapable of having any semblance of a normal relationship with me. I have repercussions and issues from that, someday I'll have to deal with. Till then I just carry the frustration and anger that I have inside for no easily identifiable reason.

My extended family, grandparents, cousins, etc, are mostly doctors, holding PHDs or otherwise very wealthy from successful businesses. I was motivated out of a sense of feeling unworthy, thanks to my narcissistic dad. For education I was marked as a genius in junior high, that fell apart at 13 though, just no guidance at all. College, I loaded up my stuff myself into a borrowed pickup truck, carried it into the dorm myself, organized my loans myself, organized classes and how to graduate myself. Worked 30 hours a week throughout to pay my bills. I never had help for anything. For someone my age to be raised in cloth diapers as I was, and growing up in a house with no air conditioning, gives you an idea on how it was. I'm a product of the 1930s, not 80s. Had they not had a Commodore they initially bought for taxes in the house, I would've been screwed like these other kids. I've also worked nonstop since 12 years of age. I'm tired, and not even that old today. I'm not complaining, others have it worse, just explaining that no, I'm not one of the well-connected, pampered white boys. It sounds odd, but I barely identify with being white as a social class. The way I see life is that we're born alone, and we die alone. It's just the way it really is, the rest is someone who loves you blowing smoke up your ass.

So for me, good genes, bad immediate family. Most of these poor folks have bad genes and a bad family. So I may have escaped, but I know what you mean with your comment. I will say I'm probably more sympathetic than you are, I will pay for others' mistakes. Due to my experiences, I probably have more legit, heartfelt sympathy for the underclass than these fly-by-night liberal types that do lots of virtue signaling on social media. It may be why I married a Mexican woman, she's very smart and being how I view life, she's my reason I don't just say ciao and put a bullet in my head. She brings some emotion out of me, I love her, and we were both tossed out. It's all good and easy when half your needs are handled for you by someone else. I'd settle to just have someone to talk to that cared about me (my wife fills that void, but I mean in my family otherwise). When times get tough and they're truly on their own, a lot of these people, who are weak, will be goosestepping or whatever is the next easiest grease they can walk on. We're seeing the rise of that already, for another class, who thinks they're forgotten.

To fix the home solution that you mention, I have a bit of experience there. I think the turn key easy fix is making parents criminally liable for their children until 21 or 25 years of age. They'll either pay attention like good parents and raise them right, or at least turn them in to mental health when they're building bombs or amassing an arsenal. It's what I came to, given my experiences and what I hear from my wife, who is a public school teacher.

Of course, that's not a real, holistic fix for a failed society like mine (USA). Most people are interested in quick solutions to problems (take the guns etc), and more parental responsibility should solve a lot of problems at once for a society that clearly isn't civilized and has a smorgasbord of issues to address. If you read this far, congrats.

Re: How poverty changes your mindset

#540
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Have you never been to London? There are homeless literally everywhere, and London is one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The money in London is much, much older as well, so if anyone should have it "sorted" it should be London.

> Have you never been to London? There are homeless literally everywhere I live in London currently. There are almost no homeless people. What are you talking about? It's one of the largest city I've been to where I've seen the least amount of poverty. I'll also say that London is super safe, you'll almost never see crazy people in the streets or public transport. I regularly take the bus or the subway at late hours…

I live in London too.

You don't get out much. Walk on any high street and you will see plenty of homeless people.

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