Time to Take a Stand • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#531

Post by dang » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:25 PM UTC

ftrflyr wrote: post #214

I'm sorry, but you fail to understand exactly what the ACLU stands for - the first word says it all. American. Green Card holders, refugees, and illegal immigrants are not Americans. We need to and should protect Americans first. Period. For all of you who don't understand not agree with this, perhaps you are unamerican?

> perhaps you are unamerican?

Good grief. Incivility like this will get your account banned from Hacker News. Please don't do it again.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13508058 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#532

Post by moomoo2 » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:25 PM UTC

cjslep wrote: post #387

bassman9000 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's got his foot in the door. That's all he needs right now. That's a nice slippery slope you got in there. There's zero mention to muslims in the text of the order, and it's clearly stated that it's temporary, with several revision dates for assesment, the goal being to strengthen the vetting procedures. I bet most people commenting here haven't read it. Do it. Now. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/…

- A ban is not needed while revising the rules. - Revision doesn't mean suspension of the ban. - Temporary can mean indefinitely. - The overwhelming number of terrorists that commit acts of terrorism on American soil come from people born in the United States of America.

If you accept the premise (that the visa system has holes) then of course you would want to suspend immigration from high risk areas while those holes are addressed. Of course, I'm sure you don't agree with the premise. But you should at least acknowledge that if you did, that a suspension would be needed while revising the rules. To do otherwise would be transparently stupid, since it would basically advertise the vulnerability while leaving it open, giving people a timeline to exploit it.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#533

Post by dgregd » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:25 PM UTC

I live in Central Europe. It is really hard from my perspective to understand all that mass hysteria in US, especially in California. Maybe overdosing leftist propaganda causes that hysteria.

Many products of Silicon Valley and Hollywood companies are simply blocked in China. Mainly to protect Chinese young companies. As far I known Google is completely blocked in China. Hollywood movies are also not freely distributed in China. And for some reason it is Trump accused of acting against free trade. What should be the right reaction for Chinese protectionism? More know-how transfer to the land of democracy?

And if you really care about Muslim countries then explain to me: why the PhD brain drain is so good for these countries?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#534

Post by 551199 » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

Sam is just worried where it leads to as many have pointed out. No more cheap labor for tech companies. They actually have to hire americans and pay market rates.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#535

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

fictioncircle wrote: post #173

qwertyuiop924 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

> People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we? When the person's actions are directly and publicly detrimental to the business interests, the investor/backer/employee is at odds with the rest of the group and yeah at that point its not just a belief but a question of the self-interest of the business being at odds with one of its investor/employee/b…

That's different from saying he should be exiled from civil society.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#536

Post by wolf550e » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

innocentoldguy wrote: post #299

microtonal wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe Maybe they are not racist homophobes, but they voted a racist homophobe and his cabal into power. They knew that his was one of the expected outcomes. Voting is powerful and you are (co-)responsible for the outcome. If you don't want racist executive orders, don't vote for a racist. Simple as that.

I didn't vote for Donald, because I think he sucks, but what other non-racist option was there? Hillary? Hillary exhibits just as much racism as Donald does; just in a different way. Hillary, along with many members of her party, are paternalistic racists. In other words, they hide their racism behind agendas that treat minorities and other groups like children. They feel that they are superior and better than other…

r: term limits for legislators. California tried that. Turns out representatives without experience at drafting and passing legislation rely on lobbyists with the requisite experience, and the power shifts from nominally accountable representatives to unaccountable lobbyists.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#537

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #512

yummyfajitas wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Was Elizabeth Warren wrong to criticize a second amendment solution to the wrong person being democratically elected?

Just to get us on track: I agree that talk of Second Amendment remedies is incredibly inappropriate. Random internet comment suggests it, and it should be downvoted. Donald Trump suggests it, and he should be considered ineligible for election to dog catcher, let alone President. Agreed?

I'm hardly a Trump fan, but the American people disagree with me. Insofar as democracy is legitimate (note: I do not believe in democracy), so is he.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#538

Post by briholt » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:26 PM UTC

potatosoup wrote: post #417

general_ai wrote: post #100

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

We've been killing Muslim families in these countries for years, even under Obama (a Nobel Peace Prize winner.) Like or hate Trump, I'm surprised that now is the time to be outraged. It should've been ages ago.

I suspect the outrage has less to do with a rational analysis of polices and world events and more to do with virtue signaling and groupthink.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#539

Post by tptacek » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:27 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #157

methehack wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Mr. Altman is largely addressing tech CEOs here and urging them to make public statements. The actions you list are great for you and me, but he's mostly not really talking to us. Supporting quotations from the post (because evidence): "The tech community is powerful. Large tech companies in particular have enormous power and are held in high regard. We need to hear from the CEOs clearly and unequivocally" "A…

The most effective action tech companies can take is what they did against SOPA: post large protest banners on popular websites. Though I don't think this is the right time to take that step. There are many outrages ahead, many will be directly related to tech, like killing net neutrality, forcing tech companies to compile Muslim registries, banning tech worker and student visas, and who knows what else. I think tech…

Don't post banners about the US refusing reentry to Green Card holders who are the spouses of American citizens, or who fought alongside our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, because that might dilute our protests against net neutrality?

After a period of 6-12 months outside the country, US Green Card holders lose their Green Cards.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#540

Post by angry-hacker » Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 8:28 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #472

angry-hacker wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And anyone who supports a man who is killing innocent people with drones, wiretaps all the world, signs things that allow kill people without any questions is a bad person. Heck, some even voted for him twice! What a bunch of fascist. So in the end all the Americans are bad people or maybe you guys start to understand each other more to avoid these situations in the future. Calling each stupid doesn't lead you anywhe…

I guess this is the modern, "And you lynch negroes!" Russian is en vogue among the Trumpistas, I get it. For what it's worth, I opposed endless drone strikes and endless war too. But you're engaging in an idiotic equivocation: they're simply not comparable.

I really don't know what understand what 'negroes' and Russians have anything to do with it. I'm not an American, but you made my belief that nothing is going to change soon because American people are so polarized and and certain there are two works views. You're either blue or red and that's it.