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Microsoft Surface Studio

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Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#531

Post by K0SM0S »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #375
rubber_duck wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

> professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag I did graphic work for many years and have worked with dozens of designers. None of them have ever been worried about specs. In fact the only person who even asked about them wanted a high end laptop so he could play video games on it at home. I am unconvinced designers care about specs unless they're working on something spec…

I think it should be obvious that "designer" means nothing, from a web guy doing basic 2D stuff to a CAD engineer in need of GPGPU passing by a video editor on CUDA, there are at least 3 entirely different needs/use-cases. Probably more as you try to cookie-cut cost/function.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#532

Post by rubber_duck »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #432
rubber_duck wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With 3-4k$ devices ? You can get two iMacs for that.

Not with the same configuration you can't. An iMac comparable to the top of the line Surface Studio is 3399 vs 4199 for the Surface Studio. If we go for the 2999 Surface Studio, the comparable iMac is 2549. So, yes, you can get two, even three iMacs for the price of a Surface Studio, but the specs will be nowhere near the same between the two.

Yes - and my point is that people running iMac truly don't care about the specs.

I've said this in this tread before - you don't dump 4k$ on a desktop for mobile performance - when you spend that kind of cash you probably really need a high end workstation - think of the mac pro use case - and this device doesn't cut it as that.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#533

Post by rubber_duck »

blahblah12 wrote: post #442
rubber_duck wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMacs are half the price of this ? This costs the same as high end laptop and a high end monitor combined. For the pricing this would need to compete with Mac Pro not iMac

an iMac needs a cintiq to replicate this functionality. You're looking at 2.5k more and now you have a clunky thing plus a monitor.

You're missing my point - he asks why he sees so many people with iMac - it's because the iMac is in a completely different price segment - iMac is just a pretty desktop, with a slightly higher price tag.

This is in the price range of Mac Pro, you need to justify spending 3 or 4k $ on this machine - and it doesn't cover the Mac Pro use case at all. For the price of this machine you can buy a high end laptop that beats this on specs and utility (because it's portable) and a high end screen.

I mean I like the device and the screen - but no way in hell am I paying 4k$ for something that's outdated out of the factory - maybe on the next update.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#534

Post by rubber_duck »

Analemma_ wrote: post #407
rubber_duck wrote: post #50

Nvidia GTX 9xxM - from what I understand 10xx cards offer the biggest difference in performance generation-to-generation seen in a while on the mobile side - the 10xx mobile versions are basically identical to desktop versions, 9xx are not even close - so why put last gen mobile tech in to a high end professional desktop product ? Especially considering the likelihood of VR proliferation in content creation - I could…

I imagine the protracted development time is at fault. The guy from Penny Arcade wrote a blog post where he said that he tried a prototype a year ago, so presumably this has been in development for at least a year and a half. Probably the 9xx was the best they had at the time and when the 10xx was released they were too far along in development to swap it out. The next one should have it though.

>The next one should have it though.

Yea for me this is a skip until they update the hardware - it's just too expensive to have to replace in a year.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#535

Post by rubber_duck »

leonroy wrote: post #446
rubber_duck wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but unless this is a glorified exec office decoration, professionals care about the specs very much, especially at that resolution and price tag

I'm a pro. I'm an experienced programmer, amateur photographer, edit home videos a lot and do a bunch of computationally expensive tasks on my workstation. Whilst I'd like to have the absolute latest, cutting edge GPU from AMD/NVIDIA I also appreciate that sometimes last gen parts are cheaper, more reliable (having benefitted from refinement over the manufacturing run) and sometimes cooler running than what's new. I…

The question is are you willing to drop 4k $ for this machine ?

iMac crowd is dropping half of that for a pretty desktop that runs fine - I can see that. I don't see a lot of people buying a 4k$ device because it looks pretty. At that price range I need to be able to use it at least two years down the road and this is already outdated before release. It's just priced waay too high considering how weak the HW is, I would definitely skip this until they do a hardware update.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#536

Post by metaphor »

enraged_camel wrote: post #518
ramenmeal wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad someone brought up the aspect ratio. That display looks so much more productive than 16:9.

As a side note, I've actually never understood why the industry converged on 16:9. It's pretty much only good for watching movies. I really miss 4:3.

Here's to hoping HN has a resident SMPTE and/or display industry gray beard or two who could chime in with historical lore.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#537

Post by wodenokoto »

reitanqild wrote: post #161
WayneBro wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm big on keyboard shortcuts but MS is very much mouse based. Incorrect. You can operate the entirety of Windows with just the keyboard. Please tell me what you cannot do with the keyboard in Windows and I'll straighten you out. OS X/macOS is definitely worse with regards to keyboard acceleration. For instance, here's a glaring omission on Apple's part: try opening any window from the menu bar (e.g. the BetterSnap…

I came to Mac in 2009 expecting great keyboard shortcuts because of everything I had heard. IMO they were fewer and less consistent than Windows and Linux shortcuts at the time and a huge disappointment. (Example: no consistent way of selecting from cursor to end of line - there was no end button and which modifier to use varied with the application you used...! I have joked that the superior touchpad on the Mac is a…

End key wouldn't even work in that scenario, as end on OS X is end of text.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#538

Post by hifigi »

d3ckard wrote: post #338

Great hardware, interface ideas look really interesting too. This could actually be some vision that can get mainstream in the future. I would seriously consider buying one, if not for one thing - OS. After recently installing Windows on Bootcamp I can honestly say that I hate the thing. It made me swear constantly for 15 minutes. I wish MS finally wrote a new OS from scratch. They seem to have the right idea about w…

Everything Windows is so entrenched in eating its own dogfood, so it probably will never change. But what I wouldn't give for a ground-up POSIX-compliant Windows OS. It's stupid, it's unrealistic, but it would be so, so awesome.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#539

Post by AsakiIssa »

K0SM0S wrote: post #529
AsakiIssa wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly no, I'm consistently reverting back to my 21ux, the jitter of slow stylus movement drives me nuts on the surface pro 4

Could you elaborate just a bit? I was about to recommend some Surface flavor to a designer friend, I don't know about the jitter you mention.

This video shows it perfectly, while this is an SP3, the SP4 is based on the same tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA4iF00YHoA

On slow strokes, you can the tracking between key points looses accuracy as if the signal between points becomes weak.

I have tried everything I can to correct the issue like changing the stylus battery, 100 point calibration and driver updates. I'm pretty much convinced that N-trig just cannot be compared with Wacom (even the iPad Pro does a better job)

However, there are programs (ClipPaint and Mischief are my prime examples) have built-in mouse smoothing which greatly reduces the jitter but means the drawing action lags behind by a second or so.

Re: Microsoft Surface Studio

#540

Post by hifigi »

tcskeptic wrote: post #373
artursapek wrote: post #19

The hardware quality gap between Windows machines and Macs is closing quickly thanks to Microsoft's investments lately

I own a Surface Book, have since a month after launch last year. For the first six months it was so unreliable that I couldn't use it for anything. Crashes, docking issues, external monitor issues, trackpad issues, sleep/wake issues, just one damn thing after another. Things got better for a few months starting in June and it became my primary personal device -- just had another bout of frustration with a Windows upd…

This is eerily similar to my experience with Surface Pro 3. I absolutely love the hardware, with the conditional statement that it doesn't work as advertised most of the time. Forced updates broke functionality...and the actual hardware failed: I got a touch dead-zone, but Microsoft gave me a complete replacement after a year (the customer service was exemplary)

My Surface Pro 3 has never felt reliable. I can't count on it working the same way one week to the next, which is unfortunate. I told a colleague this morning that I was surprised that the last two machines I really wanted were both Microsoft hardware (Surface Book and Surface Studio).

But I also won't invest in new Surface hardware until I see lots of user feedback.

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