Live data from Hacker News

I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

vox.com

521–530 of 615 posts

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#521

and the reverse? how hard is it to become a citizen of New Zealand?

Easy compared to the US: https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/ TL;DR: Get a job offer for a "skill in demand" (like IT), live in NZ for five years on a work visa, and granting citizenship is almost automatic.

I also know many people who lived and worked in the U.S. and got a green card in 5 years.. YMMV

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's mostly because those commentors on HN can't code worth their salt, and can't find a job, in an industry with thousands of unfilled positions, and need a scapegoat to pile hatred on. Most of the points stated on those hateful comments are either factually wrong, or overstate something as being the norm, when it probably happens less than 10% of the time. For one, if you are even decently good at software deve…

No, it's mostly because those commentors on HN can't code worth their salt, and can't find a job, in an industry with thousands of unfilled positions, and need a scapegoat to pile hatred on. I don't think that's true, but I don't expect we'll be giving programming tests to each commentor to get hard data Most of the points stated on those hateful comments are either factually wrong, or overstate something as being th…

"A basic security problem"

So what if anyone can come and go. You live in a town or city, right? So the adjacent towns, they let you just waltz in and out of them right? They "don't control who comes through." Is that so terrible? Do you think your town should have a big wall around it and strict security cause you're worried about a potential fugitive slipping in? No, that's stupid. It's just a really inefficient/cumbersome way to deal with the problem of criminals. Instead, you leave society open and free, and when a criminal pops up, you track him down, arrest him, stick him in jail or whatever. You don't wrap everything up with giant walls and security just cause sometimes there are criminals. So if we don't want walls around towns or cities or counties or states, why do we suddenly want them at the country level? What the hell is so special about your country? Does no one commit crimes there? No, of course they commit crimes.

And by the way, you can get smuggled into the US via the Mexican borders for like a couple thousand bucks. There's a whole industry around this. The people who do the smuggling are called 'coyotes". Any serious terrorist is already here, via that border.

Please see my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9769632

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get the feeling that Canada is changing its opinion of welcoming immigrants. Well, our government is at any rate. As a Canadian by birth I don't know that I feel we (the citizenry) have had a lot of input into the matter. :/

You're not a democracy that elects its representatives and government?

As with all ostensibly democratic states, there are undemocratic elements that act as a check on various things (including the will of the majority).

In Canada we elect representatives to a legislature, and those representatives effectively elect a government.

My representative won his seat with about 48% of the riding's vote, which is actually an extremely decisive victory for a representative, most of whom win on pluralities more in the range of 30-45%.

In total, approximately 39% of the 61% of the electorate that voted (or 23% of all eligible voters), voted in a legislature where the winning party took 53% of the seats and secured themselves virtually absolute power to enact their legislative agenda for up to 5 years.

I won't say we don't live in a democracy, but I do think we live in one that is only barely functional.

But to really specifically answer your question (which is actually two questions): I live in a democracy that elects its representatives. I do not live in a democracy that elects its government.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#524
post #494
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually most western European countries wont do this. They will try to re-socialize terrorists.

France: "French Court Rules It's Not Wrong To Revoke Citizenship Of A Convicted Binational Jihadist" http://www.ibtimes.com/french-court-rules-its-not-wrong-revo... Britain: Britain Increasingly Invokes Power to Disown Its Citizens http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/world/europe/britains-powe... Other countries include: Netherlands, however it looks like many don't as well. http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we…

French court. Nothing is wrong with that. The new Canadian bill removes the court from the equation.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#525
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I go with the three of you? I am from Brazil and want to go anywhere but here (or countries like here...) I even did some interviews for companies in Amsterdan but they didn't went well :(

Can I go with the four of you? I am Venezuelan and let me tell you, this country is the anus of the world and we don't even have toilet paper. Please be compassionate.

When you four arrive I'll give you a tour in the city!

Disclaimer: I'm from Amsterdam ;)

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#526
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long did it take to get your green card after first filing?

That's a good question. I had a hard time getting letters from my previous employers, so that part took the better part of a year. If you ignore that, I'd say 3 years? I was EB3 'other'. EB2 or EB1 category applicants from 'other' probably end up taking about a year. If you're unlucky enough to be in the India or China region, you're going to be waiting much, much longer than that though. EB3 India is probably more a…

EB2 'other' anecdote: I came to the US in 2009 on a H1B (job offer in October, granted in December) and filed for my green card almost immediately. I had my card within 18 months, most of which was PERM.

I realise I was very fortunate in three things: timing, nationality (British) and education (two Master's degrees, so EB2). During this time I was paid market rates, though I did go through a period of minor panic when I realised I basically couldn't leave Google while my green card application was pending and I had no idea how long it would actually take. But articles like this make me extremely sad that others can't be so fortunate, and I wonder what it is we (non-voting residents) can actually do about it...

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another frequently-cited benefit of opened borders is that -- for the most part -- current citizens own everything in this country, and stand to make a bit of cash if there's an influx of new faces looking to buy houses, used cars, rent rooms, etc etc etc.

I can only follow that argument if we're talking about citizens that already have assets. Increased competition for houses, used cars, and rentals will drive up prices, which is good news only if you own houses, cars, and rental property respectively.

Productivity is the root of all prosperity. Read this excellent article: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/02/always_keep_you..... Workers become on average ~20x more productive when they migrate to the first world. Because we are capital rich and we have sane government and law and order. Imagine if you were moved to Haiti and you got stuck there. How much could you contribute to society in Haiti? You could maybe slice some coconuts on the side of the road - is that gonna make the world a lot richer? Roadside sliced coconuts? Nah, much better for you to be in first world even if you're doing a low skilled job here like delivering catering to a high tech startup. That catering company is able to produce food much more efficiently, and in SF or NYC you're able to distribute it much more efficiently, and you're part of this souped-up economic engine that's changing the world. That's why they make 20x or up to 40x more (in the case of the extreme poor) when they migrate to the first world. It's better for everyone! Economists estimate that moving from the status quo to fully liberalized migration (i.e. open borders) would roughly double global gdp - that's an insane silver bullet. That's everyone getting way fucking richer in one fell swoop.

Please see my comment here for more info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9769632

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another frequently-cited benefit of opened borders is that -- for the most part -- current citizens own everything in this country, and stand to make a bit of cash if there's an influx of new faces looking to buy houses, used cars, rent rooms, etc etc etc.

> Another frequently-cited benefit of opened borders is that -- for the most part -- current citizens own everything in this country This is not true. Very many things in this country are owned by entities that are not citizens -- foreign corporations and/or foreign individuals. > and stand to make a bit of cash if there's an influx of new faces looking to buy houses, used cars, rent rooms, etc etc etc. Sure, some pe…

Productivity is the root of all prosperity. First read this excellent article: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/02/always_keep_you..... Workers become on average ~20x more productive when they migrate to the first world. Because we are capital rich and we have sane government and law and order. Imagine if you were moved to Haiti and you got stuck there. How much could you contribute to society in Haiti? You could maybe slice some coconuts on the side of the road - is that gonna make the world a lot richer? Roadside sliced coconuts? Nah, much better for you to be in first world even if you're doing a low skilled job here like delivering catering to a high tech startup. That catering company is able to produce food much more efficiently, and in SF or NYC you're able to distribute it much more efficiently, and you're part of this souped-up economic engine that's changing the world. That's why they make 20x or up to 40x more (in the case of the extreme poor) when they migrate to the first world. It's better for everyone! Economists estimate that moving from the status quo to fully liberalized migration (i.e. open borders) would roughly double global gdp - that's an insane silver bullet. That's everyone getting way fucking richer in one fell swoop.

Please see my comment here for more info: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9769632

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the culture than enables the money. If you were to beam all the Americans into space and them beam all the Mexicans into their place, they wouldn't magically achieve US levels of income just because of their physical location.

The culture doesn't enable the money. Historical reasons going far beyond that explain it very well, among them: the size of the internal American market, the amount and ease of investing capital within the US, leverage of the US government's global projection of power by its industries, ease of immigration (prior to this past decade's immense increase in difficulty for migrating legally for skilled migrants), etc et…

Natural resources don't guarantee success; conversely, lack of natural resources does not guarantee doom. Russia and Brazil on the one hand, and Japan and Britain on the other hand, tiny island nations, relatively speaking.

Culture has a lot to do with it. Brazil had the immigrants (and still does have LatAm immigrants). On the other hand Japan has been very averse to immigration.

Re: I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American and failed

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does your cost-benefit calculation not include the benefits to those foreign workers who are allowed to compete for jobs in the U.S.? The academic literature* shows much, much larger productivity and income gains to those who migrate to richer countries than any negative effect to native workers. Even if an influx of immigrants depressed some existing Americans' wages by a small amount, that delta would only pale…

Would you willingly train/mentor somebody if you knew the outcome would be that she would compete for your job personally, or that your wage would go down 20%? Frequently calls for equality are made by those who imagine their own situation could not possibly worsen; it's always some anonymous others who will pay.

I agree it sucks for anyone to lose their job, but using that as an excuse for xenophobic policy is a non-sequitur.

Do you honestly think there would have been a national uproar against Disney if they'd asked their employees to train other Americans?

Try replacing "foreign H1B worker" with "person of another skin color" and see if your arguments don't sound abhorrent. If you think the later sounds racist, the former is xenophobic.

>> it's always some anonymous others who will pay

Couldn't agree more. In the case of immigration and labor policy, the anonymous others who pay are those that didn't have the good fortune to be born in this country.

Post reply on HN