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My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

andrewkelley.me

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Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#521

Post by ksec »

Just 12 hours [1] before I wrote on HN how I hope Zig won't do a hostile reply to Jarred's blog post.

I was half expecting it to be from Loris Cro, being VP of community for Zig. But was really hoping Andrew would write one himself, hopefully being more diplomatic.

I was wrong.

Even if everything that was listed in the blog was true, it could have been either not mentioned, or in all cases put it in much better way. And that is why copywriter are worth something.

Disagreeing on AI, How to run its business, low salary for Zig's job hurts the Zig foundation, Code quality, meaning on Fuzzing etc. Instead a lot of this now reads to me as direct attack. It could have been written as a heavy disagreement in a much more professional manner.

And no, professional doesn't mean cooperate speak.

Considering the Internet was on Zig's side when Bun switch to Rust was brewing.

Sigh.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48842172

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#522

Post by nemothekid »

>There's a dichotomy being presented here where you have to either choose a "style guide" or a programming language feature in order to avoid bugs. The sleight of hand misdirects the reader away from the main way bugs are eliminated: by dedicating engineering resources to it. You're not giving TigerBeetle nearly enough credit.

In a post-Rust world I really don't like the rebuttal for eschewing memory-safety is always "you aren't engineering hard enough". The guys at TigerBeetle are "real engineers" and don't need memory safety. If I'm spending most of my time manually chasing memory errors, I didn't "real engineer" hard enough.

Chasing esoteric memory bugs are the worst kinds of bugs to pin down. They are always non-obvious (because if they were they would be fixed) and almost always non-deterministic. I'm just can't escape feeling like new memory unsafe languages are just hobby projects.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#524

Post by milch »

bananaquant wrote: post #460
dataflow wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many people who don't seem to know the different between work and life and so they may conflate the two, but to me it's pretty obvious. Nobody is conflating anything, you're just misinterpreting the same words with different meanings. A professional criticism can, in fact, be unprofessional, and even a personal attack. These are not mutually exclusive. > Those are not personal criticisms You're using "per…

> others are using "personal" to mean "regarding the individual person themselves" Following your logic, we cannot critique anyone in particular ever. How absurd! > You're using "professional" to mean "regarding the profession" whereas others are using to mean... you know, the opposite of "unprofessional". At the end of the day, it is the same thing. Person does what is their job according to common standards. Andrew…

I think there's a world of a difference between "you wrote some code and it sucks" to "you wrote some code and it sucks because you have beginner energy and live in a fever dream". The former can be an objective statement without attribution to personal failings, while the latter... not really. If I put the latter as a PR comment to my intern in the morning I would expect a meeting invite from HR by the afternoon at the latest

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#525

Post by CrimsonRain »

holysantamaria wrote: post #210

Why do I feel like reading the post of someone jealous or with low self esteem issues? Zig was not a good fit so why does it have to be a personal attack on the Bun maintainer over his life choices and his management decisions? Whatever beef you have with someone it should not be « zig is for elite and you are just an evil corporate maintainer because you are holding it wrong »

Because of that's what it is. Pure jealousy and personal attack in the veil of "it's not a personal attack bro" blog post

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#526

Post by whimsicalism »

hoppp wrote: post #352
tuckwat wrote: post #101

This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. I know very little about Jared but his article yesterday, which I read, seemed appreciative of Zig. I now learn he's donated significant chunks of money to them. This entire article is publicly and personally attacking him for choosing a different product. It's insane to me that Andrew thinks this post will somehow exonerate Zig when it really just makes them look chil…

I don't think he is attacking, he's just organising his thoughts publicly.

Sorry just organizing my thoughts on your comment publicly:

This person is credulous and naive, and I should take care to remember that if I see comments from them in the future.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#528

Post by Klonoar »

dpatterbee wrote: post #318
orangedog wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's leading the community. Not having basic professional does indeed kill them vibe for some of us. When is he going to pile on somebody else he disagrees with?

Zig's community is - bar none - the least toxic programming community I've experienced. People on this website (who have never witnessed a single Zig community interaction) love to read blogposts from afar and come to conclusions this way and that, but if they ever stopped to actually engage with the people involved they'd find out the truth quite easily.

> People on this website (who have never witnessed a single Zig community interaction)

I'll take claims that you have no ability to make for $100, Alex.

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#529

Post by [deleted] »

tuckwat wrote: post #101

This is unprofessional and embarrassing for Zig. I know very little about Jared but his article yesterday, which I read, seemed appreciative of Zig. I now learn he's donated significant chunks of money to them. This entire article is publicly and personally attacking him for choosing a different product. It's insane to me that Andrew thinks this post will somehow exonerate Zig when it really just makes them look chil…

[deleted]

Re: My thoughts on the Bun Rust rewrite

#530

Post by erichocean »

preommr wrote: post #121

There are astute comments about the post's tone elsewhere in this thread[0] But this killed my hopes for Zig. The drama is fun, and Andrew is maybe even admirable in his earnest, but this just isn't the kind of professionalism needed for a serious project. I know that's boring and uninspired, but that's what I want my tech stack and it's management to be. Also, maybe Jarred was a net negative, but bun was also a real…

> this just isn't the kind of professionalism needed for a serious project

It hasn't stopped Rust's growth, so I doubt this is true.

Most people don't care about this kind of interpersonal drama unless it impacts the actual technology itself.

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