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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#521

Post by carefree-bob »

justapassenger wrote: post #506
yolo3000 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still drive the car I bought 20 years ago. How long should the useful life of a car be?

EV batteries are expected to offer about 60-70% of capacity at 20 years. I think that's really good compared to general wear and tear of the car. But let's go back to the original point, about being able to UPGRADE (not repair/replace) battery in the car. 20 years old car is worth like $1k-2k, which is fraction of the cost of the new battery. While it's cool thing to do for hobbyists, it makes 0 economical sense.

If you want pricing for older cars, I recommend carsandbids.com. For example, here is a 2008 Audi RS4, that is currently bid to $18,000. It has 111,000 miles on it. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3oj8pvR7/2008-audi-rs4-seda...

What an old car is worth depends on many factors, but age is not the most important one. The average age of passenger cars on the road in the U.S. is 14 years old -- I think 14.5 years now. I don't think we have data on average appraised value of passenger cars on the road, but I would guess it would be in the range of 10-15K.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#522

Post by PunchTornado »

emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

what are you on about? most people i know have 4 year old phones which are just fine and want only the battery changed. my phone was 6 years old this year and it hurt me that I had to change it because of the battery. otherwise it was a perfectly fine phone.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#523

Post by joe_the_user »

emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

I provide food and services for the homeless in my area working with friends outside of any non-profit. That the phone people get from non-profits become unusable in some number of months is a big complaint. Batteries dying is significant part of this (lack of security updates is another part). Replaceable batteries are something that a lot of people would want (especially the option to have several batteries).

Just as much, there's a certain HN complaint form that basically goes "any complaint about the crap that sold now is just programmer/civil-rights-fan/etc idiosyncrasy, real people want exactly this crap 'cause markets never lie".

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#524

Post by carefree-bob »

ponector wrote: post #174
thangalin wrote: post #159

While this is a good step forward, it feels like complaining about the 0.025% of plastic from straws in the ocean while ignoring the 75% of plastic from fishing nets. I own a 2020 Kona EV. The battery cannot be upgraded. Eventually, I'll have to replace the entire car to get a longer range. BEVs should be mandated to have upgradable batteries and modular interfaces so that the shell can continue to be reused, the bat…

You bought a car with some range, you are fine with it. Why you have to replace it with longer range? Should I be able to eventually replace gas tank with the larger one in my ICE vehicle?

Yes to both. Why not?

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#525

Post by oblio »

Aachen wrote: post #257
wasmitnetzen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU already requires 5 years of patches since last year. Motorola thinks they have found a loophole, so there are still some, ahem, patches needed to the law.

Do you have more info about this? I recommended Motorola phones to people based on a combination of price, their needs, and expected longevity (at least 5y now with the new update and replacement part requirements). If that's not the case then I want to update my recommendations

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/news/new-eu-rules...

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#526

Post by salad-tycoon »

nicpottier wrote: post #290
emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

I think phone manufacturers will figure it out once it is a requirement. Was switching everyone to USB-C annoying for Apple? Sure. Are we in a better place because the EU forced it. You betcha. That's the point. I don't love everything the EU does (cookie banners!?) but this is one where I have confidence that the consumer will ultimately benefit. As others have noted, most people do not replace their phones every tw…

I like usb C more than lightning but I think legislation is terribly suited. If people only wanted usb c then just don’t buy an iPhone? But this is from my US idealistic view and distrust of over regulation.

Anyways, Apple was working on an iPhone with usb C in 2022 and said they were going to do it anyways* so I don’t see it as some massive win that shows the prowess of the EU legislative body.

Granted this may have shaved a couple of years off of the timeline but at what cost of legislation (monetary, attention, and time cost)!?

# https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/apple-pushes-back...

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#527

Post by joe_the_user »

superfrank wrote: post #434
coda_ wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your experience is not at all what I see out there. Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day. They hate having to set up a new phone when their old one is totally fine other than the battery. For the people I know that do upgrade their phones regularly, they typically want to give their old phone to someone who would love a usable phone, but can't afford a n…

> Most people I know only get new phones because their battery will no longer get them through the day I don't disagree with this, but I also think it's because the battery often dies around the time most people would consider upgrading anyway. The battery isn't the only reason people upgrade, it's just a forcing factor. If batteries normally last 3-5 years, I don't think we're going to start seeing most people keep…

Sure, batteries dying are just one way in which phones become disposable. But I want to fight all those ways too (stupid new protocols and lack of security updates notably).

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#528

Post by mk89 »

bydo wrote: post #437
nicpottier wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think phone manufacturers will figure it out once it is a requirement. Was switching everyone to USB-C annoying for Apple? Sure. Are we in a better place because the EU forced it. You betcha. That's the point. I don't love everything the EU does (cookie banners!?) but this is one where I have confidence that the consumer will ultimately benefit. As others have noted, most people do not replace their phones every tw…

Everyone moving to USB-C was the same standard, though; now you can use the same charger with your phone, laptop, tablet, other random gadgets, etc. If you forget your charger you can buy one virtually anywhere, or borrow someone else's, since they're all the same. Everyone moving to "battery must be replaceable without tools" doesn't do anything useful for most users. Yeah, now you can carry an extra battery on a ca…

> if you can't find a replacement battery for that exact model.

Usually there are compatible ones that still give you some juice for 1-2 years at a small fraction of the price (of the original one).

If you worry about that, you can always buy an "official" battery in advance to be used 4-5 years later.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#529

Post by carefree-bob »

gambiting wrote: post #183
volemo wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries degrade, you know.

Yes, which is why they are replacable, and Hyundai is bound by law to keep making batteries for OP's Kona for a good while even after the production stops.

Unfortunately Hyundai is not required by law to keep making batteries. They are only legally required to provide for warranty support for up to 10 years after a car is made. Usually that means you keep making parts, but I'm not sure how this works with EVs.

But the window is 10 years. After that, you rely on market forces -- if there is a profit to be made from making the part, then it is made. Heavily cars rely on aftermarket parts, but the question of a battery is a bit different.

Again, we need open source cars, with open source designs, so that batteries can be repaired, upgraded, and replaced by an aftermarket. I keep pushing this and hope I'm not being tedious, but people are underestimating the risk to the consumer.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#530

Post by rendx »

vincnetas wrote: post #476
srmatto wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to the experience with Android but Apple offers both in-store battery replacement or Mail-in battery replacement for $70-120 which to me seems very reasonable. Could it be cheaper? Sure, maybe I guess? But $70-120 is a lot less than a new phone. And this way we don't need to compromise the shell of the phone with seams and things that can fail. https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/battery-replacement

how long are you willing to be without your phone? banking apps, public transit tickets, calls, messages, digital signatures. this is luxury not many can afford these days to be offline for days.

With Apple, at least in Germany, you schedule an appointment online, you walk in at that time, and you can come pick it up an hour later. Many independent shops offer basically the same for Android and Apple phones.
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