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The American Healthcare Conundrum

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521–530 of 690 posts

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#521

The problems are so vast it is difficult to even describe to outsiders. For example, if I purchase a particular medication at a local pharmacy, it costs $25. However, my insurer mandates that I purchase it via their Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM) Optum, which charges $125. Easy enough right, you price shop? Well then it doesnt count towards your deductible. The whole thing is an elaborate trap to not pay. Sometimes…

If you can pay cash without insurance, then you don't need the insurance.

Insurance is (should be) addressing the risk of unexpected expenses that you cannot afford. Not predictable, small expenses that everyone has.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always baffles me. There’s so much rampant profiteering in the US healthcare system it’s unbelievable. Other countries look at it from afar in utter disbelief. I’m glad I had no serious health problems when I lived there 25 years ago (and I had health insurance via my employer). In the UK prescriptions are effectively capped at about USD125 per year: https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/help-nhs-prescription-costs/nhs-pr..…

What an amazing system! Poof! just like magic you can pretend that sophisticated medicines, that are years in development, should cost nothing just because! And then you can act all smug about it!

Not at all. The majority of the cost is subsidised by the Government who acts as a central purchaser to minimise profiteering and keep prices down.

Everyone pays a little bit towards it all via general taxation but if you prefer a system where individuals have to front the vast majority of their own costs, much of which is just being extracted as profit, then you are welcome to that. I prefer the option that leans a lot more towards socialism than rapacious capitalism.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are extremely close to arriving at the solution, which is medicare for all. Cover everyone, then almost noone uses the insurance except when they need it, which is when they get old. I strongly think that covering everyone in the existing system is not the best way to go. The existing system is designed to cost as much as possible, and we have way too much demand for treatment (as is) and not enough supply. ER…

> We simply do not have enough doctors We're going to need to make more doctors. To do that we'll need to identify kids in high school that would be good candidates and offer full-ride scholarships where needed. And we need to improve science education at the high school level to help with all of this.

Or, like, not haze kids in their 20s for residency and make them take hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Whereas in Europe and other countries, residents work something like 50 hours per week and graduate with zero debt.

I've watched friends go through it here in the US and I have zero interest in working 24 hour shifts and sleeping in break rooms, working 80+ hour weeks for years. There just is no need other than hazing and keeping artificial scarcity of doctors for inflated wages. There are plenty of brilliant, scientifically minded, hard working people that care about others that probably could be great doctors, but the US training system is just hostile towards most people.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#524
post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia reporting in. We have private emergency rooms. We call them urgent care and you can go and see a qualified physician with allied health services (radiology, pathology). If they can fix you up they will. If not you get transferred via ambulance to the nearest public hospital and triaged as required. I took my kid to one last weekend as they had been diagnosed by our family Dr as having pneumonia. The emergen…

Does it make sense to get an x-ray for that? I’m sympathetic to the desire, but isn’t the end result for pneumonia always antibiotics anyway?

If it's not pneumonia, antibiotics might not help.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in healthcare start-ups for many years and the main problem is mis-aligned incentives. The #1 thing we need to do is make it illegal for your healthcare to be tied to your employment. We can still have your employer provide a X% or $Y to an HSA account that the employee can buy health coverage wherever they like. (I'm not optimistic that this will ever happen politically) The issue today is that NOT healing…

> We can still have your employer provide a X% or $Y to an HSA account that the employee can buy health coverage wherever they like. (I'm not optimistic that this will ever happen politically) Doesn't this already partly exist? My (US) employer offers an HDHP (high-deductible health plan) that comes with an HSA. (It's not quite what you described, because you have to use the insurer that the company picked. I think y…

The main difference there is that with an HDHP your employer is still the one choosing the insurance provider, and the insurance provider views your employer as the customer. There's no risk that you as an individual will switch to another provider as long as the employer remains with this one.

Removing that layer of indirection would make it your own choice to pick a provider, and the provider is then incentivized, at least a little bit, to provide you with a good outcome or else you may freely switch to another provider.

There's also the component that, right now, you lose the discounted group rate insurance premium as soon as you lose or leave a particular job. Putting the purchasing power with the end consumer means that you can keep your provider at the same premiums even if you switch jobs. All that might change is your employer contribution.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#526

The problems are so vast it is difficult to even describe to outsiders. For example, if I purchase a particular medication at a local pharmacy, it costs $25. However, my insurer mandates that I purchase it via their Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM) Optum, which charges $125. Easy enough right, you price shop? Well then it doesnt count towards your deductible. The whole thing is an elaborate trap to not pay. Sometimes…

try being diabetic ugh. I am constantly grinding against made up barriers. 150$ in strips and about 500-700$ for insulin. Meanwhile I meet a friend and he's just buying the base insulin from walmart for about 50$ a vial.

It is insane to me how much diabetic test strips cost in the United States. They are a cheap mass manufactured product that cost almost nothing everywhere else in the world

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health care is so broken that I think it will unbreak itself. You can eliminate most of the problem by mandating true cost billing by hospitals (get rid of their insurance mandated 500%+ markups to make it look like your insurance does anything at all besides make your care as costly as possible). As you said, it's oftentimes cheaper to buy drugs without insurance. The average person would quickly find out that insur…

The actual true problem is that there is a mismatch between the value the average person generates in their life, and the value of them staying alive. A handful of SOTA treatments can easily blast through a year of someone's total earnings. And this isn't even some kind of gouging or scam, anything SOTA tends to be the most expensive. Insurance is the natural solution to this, but to be effective it requires most peo…

> Insurance is the natural solution to this, but to be effective it requires most people to not need it while still paying into it.

Yes, and you can fix it by the state covering ONLY tails - which it ALREADY essentially does, just as expensively as humanly possible.

Democrats and Republicans spend all their time arguing about whether to have sweeping changes that won't drive down costs or do nothing (which obviously won't bring down costs).

You could spend less money and get better outcomes by officially covering the tails instead of un-officially.

Instead of ~50% of young, healthy people paying a MASSIVE tax for "insurance for all" which doesn't really do what it says - you could just officially cover the tails, use the existing tax dollars, and accept that instead of ~30% of people "not having coverage" everyone would have tail coverage and ~50% of people wouldn't have "coverage".

You get a better, fairer system - that costs less overall, and that I think the American people could actually vote for.

Republicans would like it because it costs less and doesn't cover abortions or whatever they bitch about.

Democrats would like it because it officially covers everyone and prevents medically bankruptcies, and it doesn't FORCE anyone off insurance, and it would bring down private insurance costs significantly. They'd bitch that we should just do Universal Healthcare instead, but it's hard to argue it's a step in the wrong direction.

Pipe dreams don't pass. Reality does. You're never getting anything passed that massively fucks over a huge relatively popular special interest (like doctors).

You might be able to pass things that piss off unpopular powerful special interest like Health Insurance (or, previously, Fossil Fuel companies).

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#528

I see a lot of the comments operating from an empirical framing. This is valid analysis and is good; we should want to understand the waste in the system as it stands. However, that isn't enough. US healthcare is wildly inefficient because the paying customer is different than the serves customer. This has been known for sixty years, since Arrow published his paper (he identified four reasons, three of which are not…

One key problem appears as misaligned ("perverse") incentives. But it has to be that because its essentially impossible for an average person to purchase health care in the moderately informed and choice-filled fashion that I can purchase a vacuum cleaner.

Of course, another key problem is trying to divide distinct parts of health care into distinct costs. Everyone benefits from having a good quality hospital in their area and so assigning a health care provider's cost to just a given patient and then trying to reduce the patient's cost is quite irrational.

Essentially, you have a public good that the state and private interests are trying to make into a public good. A lot of profit comes from this but little good for the patients.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are extremely close to arriving at the solution, which is medicare for all. Cover everyone, then almost noone uses the insurance except when they need it Most Medicare recipients do get supplementary private insurance though? It's called "Medigap." Medicare pays for 80% of patients' costs, but even the remaining 20% is a lot. (You get a $100,000 procedure -- you're on the hook for $20,000.) That's why people ge…

By "the insurance" I was referring to Medicare. I'm a working, healthy person and rarely use healthcare outside of preventative care. You could raise my Medicare taxes by hundreds monthly and still be less than what I pay for private insurance. In a Medicare-for-all scenario, the individual price of a given procedure doesn't need to be so high, because the reimbursement is guaranteed. Right now, the "list" price of t…

Your private insurance isn't there (ideally) to pay for your preventative care, which you can easily pay for out of pocket. It's there to pay for the low-probability but very expensive scenarios, such as cancer, major accident/injury, etc. that would otherwise bankrupt you.

Re: The American Healthcare Conundrum

#530

The problems are so vast it is difficult to even describe to outsiders. For example, if I purchase a particular medication at a local pharmacy, it costs $25. However, my insurer mandates that I purchase it via their Pharmacy Benefit Managers (PBM) Optum, which charges $125. Easy enough right, you price shop? Well then it doesnt count towards your deductible. The whole thing is an elaborate trap to not pay. Sometimes…

Prescriptions are a total racket. A good portion of actual medication literally costs a few dollars at most. Then there’s layer upon layer of bloat and bureaucracy that add no value but drive the cost up 10x or more. It’s totally bonkers. When these Rx cards and Marc Cuban CostPlus drugs came out where you just pay cash and a fraction of the price I thought there must be some catch or scam here. But turns out no, the…

The catch is that Mark Cuban is now the one capturing the rewards instead of the now-unknown-to-me-in-the-wake-of -Luigi-Mangione healthcare tech company CEO
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