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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#521

Post by rkagerer »

slg wrote: post #346
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

>you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. This is very much not what "software-defined vehicle" means which itself is very much not the same thing as EVs. It's possible to criticize the explotative business practices you mentioned (or bad UI practices like moving everything to a touchscreen instead of physical buttons) without linking th…

cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update are generally better than recalls that will wait to get fixed until an owner schedules an appointment

Haed disagree. You've been bamboozled, too.

Recalls of any kind are a signal to me the vehicle shipped half-baked. I'd rather have the car with slightly older features that took a little longer to release, but got it right before leaving the factory floor. Or at least the one with sufficient isolation between safety-critical and convenience features that recalls like those you describe are low priority enough to not be urgent.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#522

Post by hedora »

lmm wrote: post #493
Slow_Hand wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be! I don't know enough to say what the ratio of exhaust to tire particulate is on the average road. In either case it's a good physical representation of how much particulate we are exposed to every day. Maybe having it trapped in dirty snowbanks is better than having it getting kicked up into the air during a dryer season.

If it's particulates from tires then heavier EVs are probably making that worse not better (partially offset by regenerative braking, but only partially).

EVs produce more tire dust, but much less brake dust and exhaust (even when powered by coal plants).

The net effect is a massive reduction in dust and particulates.

Some modern tire additives are incredibly toxic to fish. They’ve been banned in the EU, but for the very special corner case of driving in sensitive watersheds in the US, it’s possible EVs are worse on that one dimension.

Of course, we could just ban the recently approved additive, and completely solve that corner case problem.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#523

Post by tlapinsk »

leftytak wrote: post #500

Eva are great until you have the replace the battery. Then you’ll finally realize the real cost of owning an EV. Once people realize that, then the game is over. Honda is just forecasting the future more accurately than other automakers.

What time horizon are you basing this on? It seems like most EVs will retain 70-85% capacity after a decade.

There likely isn’t data for anything beyond 12-15 years but I’m not sure that’ll matter given most people own cars ~7-8 years.

https://evelectriccars.com/electric-car-battery-lifespan/

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#524

Post by mynameisash »

chii wrote: post #498
slg wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how many complaints I see on HN that are framed as if they're complaints about a specific piece of technology when they are really complaints about capitalism. I'm all ears if you want to criticize our entire economic system, but I think it's silly to have that conversation specifically in the context of car software rather than at a societal level.

> when they are really complaints about capitalism it's not a complaint about capitalism. It's a complaint about asymmetric bargaining power in the seller/buyer relationship. That's not inherent in capitalism. It's inherent in an anti-competitive market. The failure is in gov't making sure there's sufficient regulation to prevent monopolistic practises.

> The failure is in gov't making sure there's sufficient regulation to prevent monopolistic practises.

This may not be a problem inherent to capitalism, but it certainly is a problem caused by the capitalism we currently have (by which I'm specifically referring to the US, but it may apply more broadly elsewhere).

And the government's failure to adequately regulate the market is due to the right. The party that claims government doesn't work has repeatedly - for generations - run on this as their platform, and when in power, they ensure it doesn't work by continued regulatory capture and gutting of consumer protections.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#525

Post by strix_varius »

cheema33 wrote: post #473
gcanyon wrote: post #214

EVs are going to be an extinction-level event for carmakers. As the buggy-makers failed to transition to making cars, and thus ceased to be, so too will automakers fail to transition to EVs, and thus end their viability as vehicle manufacturers.

> EVs are going to be an extinction-level event for carmakers. Agreed. It is exceptionally rare for a consumer to purchase one EV and then buy ICE as their next vehicle. I have owned EVs for more than 10 years. There is no going back.

It's not though: https://www.wardsauto.com/news/consumers-turn-back-to-ice-EY...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#526

Post by kjkjadksj »

slg wrote: post #415
metaphor wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all motherhood and apple pie, but I'm sorry: the reality that we live in and incentives at play are such that if a capability can be exploited, then it will be exploited to the detriment of the consumer. Full stop.

It's interesting how many complaints I see on HN that are framed as if they're complaints about a specific piece of technology when they are really complaints about capitalism. I'm all ears if you want to criticize our entire economic system, but I think it's silly to have that conversation specifically in the context of car software rather than at a societal level.

It is fair to discuss new inroads of the capitalist devil such as this one

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#527

Post by strix_varius »

jedberg wrote: post #226

This is so unfortunate. I was never a van guy, but my wife insisted we get a van, so I got the Honda. And honestly? I kinda love it. It drives like a car but holds eight people (or four people and a whole bunch of luggage). The way we use the van, 90% of our drives are under 20 miles round trip. The rest are longer road trips. I've been waiting eight years for Honda to make an electric or even a plug-in hybrid where…

> I guess that's not happening now.

They're still going with their hybrids of course.

I have a Honda Hybrid CR-V and love the drivetrain. We're waiting until Honda moves that drivetrain into the Odyssey (which is the van we want... probably what you have, hah)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#528

Post by hedora »

somethoughts wrote: post #359
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

My hot take for Japan is that hybrids make the most sense until one the major markets (US or all of EU) has significant traction with respect to ubiquitous EV charger infrastructure. Tesla can fund the project of making EV chargers ubiquitous in the US and make it make sense within the context of a profitable business plan. Chinese manufacturers can similarly make it make sense financially. Japanese auto makers who a…

California has 1.6 charge stalls per gas nozzle. Does that count?

I places like Japan (small, population dense, with small cars) you can use a 120V outlet to charge an EV. Most places have 240V household outlets, and can charge at least twice as fast.

So, if you have a garage with electricity, infrastructure isn’t really an issue. Sooner or later it will be common to mandate a charger per residential parking spot. The chargers themselves are $200. The main costs are permitting and retrofitting, but that matters a lot less for new development.

If one circuit per parking spot seems like a lot of infrastructure, consider the fact that most apartments have at least a half dozen circuits already.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#529

Post by [deleted] »

chii wrote: post #498
slg wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how many complaints I see on HN that are framed as if they're complaints about a specific piece of technology when they are really complaints about capitalism. I'm all ears if you want to criticize our entire economic system, but I think it's silly to have that conversation specifically in the context of car software rather than at a societal level.

> when they are really complaints about capitalism it's not a complaint about capitalism. It's a complaint about asymmetric bargaining power in the seller/buyer relationship. That's not inherent in capitalism. It's inherent in an anti-competitive market. The failure is in gov't making sure there's sufficient regulation to prevent monopolistic practises.

[deleted]

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#530

Post by rkagerer »

fwipsy wrote: post #377
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

It doesn't have to be ethical. Honda is missing out on something profitable.

Not really. Competitors shifting focus out of the space, combined with their being incredibly competitive in the space (they're known for making some of the most reliable engines), says to me they've found their product-market fit. They've got plenty of time to quietly reboot and have another crack at the EV game down the road.

This is one of those times I'll trust the judgement of the grey haired execs who actually have all the numbers, over the plucky young journalist who's just spouting an editorial opinion. (Nothing against the latter, I just think in this specific case they're naive and dead wrong).

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