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TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

nytimes.com

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Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#521

Post by direwolf20 »

bdcravens wrote: post #363
zbentley wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of absolutism is unhelpful. At every point on the spectrum between "a good app that people choose to spend time on because it's valuable to them" and "heroin marketed to preteens in schools" there is no clear line or delineation between addictive abuse and autonomy. But we still don't let liquor stores sell to kids. We still criminalize a lot of drug use. And while there are tons of different opinions about…

Drugs and alcohol are explicit substances with an explicit definition.

What's the definition of drugs? What's the chemical formula of drugs?

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#522

Post by direwolf20 »

Dweller1622 wrote: post #444
krapp wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, liquor quite famously is considered as something to be protected in the U.S.; we had widespread civil unrest about removing legal restrictions on it! And yet there's no Constitutional right to liquor, nor is access to liquor generally recognized as a fundamental human right. The civil unrest was due to the obvious result of banning liquor being the creation of mafia-run black markets. Same as the "war on drugs…

The world at large seems to have descended into moral panic on all sorts of subjects and it's difficult for me to understand precisely how or why. Perhaps it's no coincidence that over the last decade and change there seems to have been broad political shifts to the right. Certainly the various moral panics would have interplay with that, but I'm not sure which came first if either.

Maybe a lot of things are just bad and people are upset by them.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#523

Post by direwolf20 »

krapp wrote: post #419
asadotzler wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising is speech and it's often heavily regulated.

Advertising is speech by corporations, so there's a public interest in regulating it. What's the public interest in regulating your speech, or mine, just because we're on a platform that has an arbitrarily high userbase or uses algorithmic sorting? Why should it be illegal for me to like fishing videos, and want to be shown more fishing videos if I watch fishing videos? Or to post at all online without a license and…

The tiktok feed is speech by a corporation so why shouldn't it be regulated?

Why the fuck do you think anyone is making it illegal for you to like fishing videos? I think it's you who's engaged in moral panicking.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#524

Post by direwolf20 »

crazygringo wrote: post #147

> On Friday, the regulators released a preliminary decision that TikTok’s infinite scroll, auto-play features and recommendation algorithm amount to an “addictive design” that violated European Union laws for online safety. How is this any different from Reddit? From Instagram? Why single out TikTok? Applying laws unevenly is a form of discrimination.

because reddit isn't popular enough to fall under the law, and they are separately investigating Instagram.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#526

Post by direwolf20 »

seydor wrote: post #332
davidmurdoch wrote: post #148

What other instances of "we did our job as little too well" are there? I can think of tabacco and other drugs, but that's not really the same. Monopolistic behavior doesn't really fit either. Maybe Kleenex marketing doing so well their name became interchangeable with the word "tissue"?

Condoms or contraceptives (if they correlate with the drop of fertility

The drop in fertility correlates with it becoming a terrible decision to reproduce, because of market and government action.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#527

Post by ffsm8 »

direwolf20 wrote: post #496
ffsm8 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't turn it off entirely, but if you keep using "show less shorts" from the 3 dot menu it eventually goes away, mostly...

It comes back. It acts like it executed shortiness+=1 every day, and "show fewer shorts" does shortiness-=10 or thereabouts. The shorts position on the home screen is based on this hidden shortiness variable. It always bubbles back to the top unless you keep pressing "show fewer shorts" whenever you see it.

Strange, for me it only comes back up if I get baited into clicking on any short (or have one linked to me)

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#528

Post by tsoukase »

OrangeMusic wrote: post #479
D-Machine wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is becoming increasingly pro paternalism and censorship (largely invalidating the "Hacker" in its name). I'm not sure if this is natural / organic or some kind of astroturfing, but it sure is odd and doesn't really match the rest of the overall (historical) ethos of the site.

Over generalizations of what HN "is" or what HN "does" are always meaningless. It's a large group of different people who don't act as a single individual. For instance the comments and opinions in this post are very diverse.

The comment voting is very opionated though. It's like the same person up/down votes consistently. Obviously the people who vote are of the same opinion group.

Re: TikTok's 'addictive design' found to be illegal in Europe

#530

Post by chasing0entropy »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #516
boelboel wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan doesn't use algorithms to push users to certain boards afaik, makes it better than the others in its design. I'm not arguing 4chan is great but it's not nearly as impactful as Facebook, Twitter or TikTok in creating extremism.

So you believe 4chan (and its cousin boards) didn’t/dont foster extremism?

Facebook and Twitter are far worse sources of extremism. There are entire groups dedicated to genetic comparisons between races, 'who would you do' groups that do nothing but photos of young women in bikinis farmed FROM facebook/ig.

4chan is where you go too far. 4chan users typically don't foster extremism, they are the extreme. They don't post pictures of young women, they post addresses and walkthroughs of their apartments.

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