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STFU

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Re: STFU

#521

Post by kelnos »

dylan604 wrote: post #45
tra3 wrote: post #28

In the style of cheap tiktoks: "There are two types of people...". My wife loves listening to her phone on max volume, but it sounds so bad compared to half decent speakers. Also what's up with the people hiking (by themselves) with a bluetooth speaker. You're by yourself, in nature. If you want to listen to music wear headphones!! Also why are people using speaker phones in public places at max volume. The speaker i…

Yes, you are a crank, but you are not alone. Either way, we should at least acknowledge the crankiness. Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have received the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker instead of headphones. How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do. There's a lot more outdoor…

> How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide.

Hiking trails and parks are public spaces, and we absolutely do get to decide how people spend their time there. I've seen parks and trails where the sign at the entrance/trailhead says no amplified music (among other restrictions). Selfish people of course ignore these signs and damage the experience for everyone around them.

Re: STFU

#522

Post by kelnos »

BeetleB wrote: post #220
dpark wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is willful misreading. They specifically also said “social norms”. This “it’s not technically illegal so it’s not a problem” sentiment is unhealthy for civil societies. I for one would like basic social norms to be respected without law-enforcement being involved.

I was pointing out the pointlessness of invoking "laws" in this scenario. I'm not the one that brought it into the conversation. As for social norms, one only has to read the comments to understand that there clearly isn't consensus on this point. People go to nature for many reasons - not all related to enjoying the sounds of nature. What dylan604 is pointing out is to be mindful of that.

> People go to nature for many reasons - not all related to enjoying the sounds of nature.

The issue that you seem to be (willfully?) ignoring is that in a shared space, there are actions that you can take that force others to "enjoy" the space in a way that's different than they'd like.

Someone wants to enjoy the space with music. Ok, they play music, so they're enjoying the space in the way they want. Great for them.

Someone else wants to enjoy the space more quietly, able to hear the sounds of nature around them. But the person above has decided for them that they are not permitted to enjoy the space that way.

This is the difference between "freedom to" and "freedom from". Unfortunately when you have the "freedom to" do whatever you want, you infringe on the "freedom from" of others. It's a balance, and I'm sad to see that it seems people are swinging that balance toward "freedom to" at the expense of others. When I was growing up, we used to call this "common courtesy", which seems to be much less common these days.

Re: STFU

#523

Post by kelnos »

dylan604 wrote: post #136
tristor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone owns headphones. Some people might have received the speaker as a gift or decided on the speaker instead of headphones. How people spend their time outdoors is not up to you or I to decide. If they want to listen to music from a bluetooth speaker, that's what they want to do. There's a lot more outdoors for you to use as well so rather that stewing, just find more outdoors. Especially on trails. Just k…

I've been on both ends of this. One of the local parks allowed for permits to use amplified sound which we took advantage of about once a month weather permitting. Lots of complaints to the point I often interacted with police. We showed them the permit, we'd show dB readings from a meter, the police would leave, we'd keep going. It's a public place being used in a way allowed by those that be. There's no bluetooth s…

I think you're confusing the issue here. You were in a public place that explicitly allowed loud music with a permit. You obtained that permit, and you did what you were explicitly allowed to do. Great; you did the right thing.

But on hiking trails (and in many parks), there isn't that sort of thing. While some will prohibit loud noise, many don't say anything about loud noise. In those cases, in the absence of guidance, we should do the thing that is courteous and considerate of others: not play loud music.

Re: STFU

#524

Post by kelnos »

ArnoVW wrote: post #355
pixl97 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean "As with anything in life it depends on a huge number of variables such as location, number of allies the other person has, the threat potential you represent, the number of allies you have, your standing on the social ladder, if you're in a position of power, your ability to understand social clues, the exact method how you ask, yada yada"

No. It delends on how you ask. Did you walk over? Did you say hi? Did you lower yourself to be around their height? Give them a second or two to get used to you? Tell them first that their noise is loud ? Ask them in a respectable tone if they would lower it, just a bit? Did you give the impression that you were asking, not demanding? Of course I won't ask a drunk or aggressive looking person. But there is a wrong wa…

> Of course I won't ask a drunk or aggressive looking person.

I've learned in my time in cities that it can be very hard to judge who is likely to be aggressive and who isn't.

Re: STFU

#525

Post by kelnos »

renewiltord wrote: post #104
connorgurney wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with anything in life, it depends on how you ask.

I left my Mac on top of my car in San Francisco once and the next day when I came back it was still there. The thing with catastrophic events that occur at 1% is that even if everyone were to risk it ten times (that's a huge amount for this I think) 9 out of every 10 people would say "nah, nothing happens, I've done it ten times without anything happening" but then 1 out of 10 would die. So then the question becomes…

I was mask on and at a bar literally on the day they lifted the capacity restrictions, and came down with COVID days later. I was the lucky 1 in 10!

Re: STFU

#526

Post by kelnos »

olyjohn wrote: post #69
varjag wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a way to avoid direct confrontation via passive aggression.

Yeah except being passive aggressive actually tends to escalate the situation. Because sometimes people will just respond to a polite question, but now you've just been the same asshole to them, so there is a higher chance that they're just going to get offended.

Absolutely, but the key word in the GP's use of "avoid direct confrontation" is direct. Being passive-aggressive is indirect, and even if it's more likely to cause an escalation, to many people it feels safer, even if it really isn't.

Re: STFU

#527

Post by matwood »

Scoundreller wrote: post #328
matwood wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I lead a life of very few meetings An old business partner had meetings which felt like 24/7. He had zero issue taking a phone call in the bathroom. I doubt anyone on the other end ever knew.

But my 1 pair of Bluetooth headphones are dead and who could possibly sleep at night if their phone was 1mm thicker for a headphone jack???

He was a speakerphone or hold it to his ear person lol. Only used headphones if he was listening to music.

Re: STFU

#528

Post by tombert »

ecshafer wrote: post #78
connorgurney wrote: post #31

I might be in a minority saying this - and particularly so here on HN - but I struggle to understand why you'd be willing to use a tool like this, as OP did, but not to politely ask someone to keep it down?

I have seen fights break out in the subway over people being loud. People playing loud music in public often seem to be the types to be looking for trouble, they want someone to tell them to turn it down, so they can say no and escalate. In a lot of cities this is a big risk.

I remember one guy had a whole DJ setup on the subway once. Like he had a table, a laptop, several large speakers, a microphone, monitor headphones, the works. He would have been right at home DJing a kids birthday party.

The music he was playing was ridiculously bad. Obviously subjective but this was such terrible low effort stuff that I am not sure it would even make it to SoundCloud. Think “your stoner friend’s demo tape you try to listen to but can’t get more than three minutes in”

We were in a long tunnel and he turned the volume up, which I don’t think anyone wanted. I yell over the speaker and say he should that shit off. He said people here want it, to which I say “no they actually don’t. See how everyone here has headphones on? If your music was any good you wouldn’t have to force people to listen to it as hostages. If you want to actually test this then go to Washington Square Park, not the fucking train”.

He called me an asshole, turned the music even louder, and kept it going until I left the train. I don’t think he agreed with my reasoning.

Re: STFU

#529

Post by kelnos »

krick wrote: post #172
abalashov wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the overwhelming opposition to this, and I wouldn't do it myself. However, I lead a life of very few meetings (I'd actually appreciate more--this stance puts me in a very small company, to be sure), so it's easy for me to say that one should be more judicious with one's timing. I can emphathise with someone stuck in meetings all day in a predominantly listening role, that they consider perfunctory or mos…

As a matter of fact, I do NOT understand the overwhelming opposition to this. What's your deal if a guy is good at multitasking and people on the other end of the wire don't mind it? It isn't like he is desecrating a temple, or intruding into your home and using your toilet, or jerking off in the public... Wait, actually I'd say even the latter shouldn't be your business, unless he stains something. Why cannot people…

> What's your deal if a guy is good at multitasking and people on the other end of the wire don't mind it?

I strongly suspect these sorts of people don't ask the people on the other end of the line for their consent.

(TBH, I would probably give that consent if asked, though I'd never take a meeting from the toilet myself.)

Re: STFU

#530

Post by tombert »

fernandotakai wrote: post #370
_vqpz wrote: post #160

The idea that 12 lines of vibe coded JavaScript prompted because someone was too scared to talk to someone disturbing him (but not enough to take a creep shot and blast him on Twitter) could make it to the top post of this website is quite sad.

i've seen people get beat up because they asked an anti-social c-words to turn the volume down. some people just cannot be reasoned and the amount of people like this is growing HARD.

I’ve never really understood that. I’ve never been beat up over it but people have gotten extremely defensive over it.

Is it some kind of minor evangelism on their end? Like they think the music is so wonderful that obviously everyone should be listening to it?

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