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Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

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Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#521

Post by ben_w »

lateforwork wrote: post #242
thatguy0900 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in 2032 everyone just crosses their fingers this doesn't happen again? Unless 2029 includes a structural overhaul of the entire government I really don't see how the US regains it's status as the capital of the world. We are doing everything in our power to permenantly isolate ourselves from the rest of the world at the moment. Attacking a nato state, even threatening to attack a nato state really, is not somethi…

My optimistic take is that we will learn from the mistakes we are making now to make sure it does not get repeated ever again. Trump will be gone and will be too old to have any influence. But Elon Musk and people like Marc Andreessen will continue to be a problem we need to find a solution for.

> But Elon Musk and people like Marc Andreessen will continue to be a problem we need to find a solution for.

I suggest you, personally, assist with finding that solution.

Without it, even if we trust you personally, how can we trust you as a nation?

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#522

Post by alias_neo »

homebessguy wrote: post #234
jacquesm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were ripped off.

Absolutely. A local company is currently advertising 12 470w panels, 10kwh storage for £7695 fully installed with additional pannels fully installed for £200 each. /r/uksolar is a great resource for comparing quotes.

There are a lot of variables that need to be factored in, and they don't cover many of them in these cheaper quotes.

What size inverter? Is it a hybrid inverter? 10kWh of Storage is 8-9kWh usable because batteries are only warrantied to 80-90% depth-of-discharge, is that enough?

Since there's only ~5.6kWp of panels in that quote it's probably over-provisioned, and it will likely come with a smaller inverter, say 3.6kW, which is what a lot of these cheaper companies will do, and export will be limited under G98 to 3.68kW.

That also means that in peak sun, your 5.6kW of panels are going to clip at the inverter capacity and you won't be able to access more than that limit in power.

£200 per extra panel isn't bad, the company I went with charged £300, but mine came with per-panel optimisers (at my request, mainly for the monitoring functionality rather than optimisation). If I wanted to add an additional elevation though, that would be per-panel cost plus ~£2000 for the additional elevation of scaffolding.

If you're going for one of these installations and haven't already, ask these questions, and if you can get a decent price that's great, I wish you luck. I'm not on reddit so I can't comment on the quality of that sub.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#523

Post by hackable_sand »

hollowturtle wrote: post #308

All I see is missed opportunities to build a bunch less nuclear power plants and call it a day, without messing up with the landscape. Am I the only one? I believe if we Europeans and Americans start building nuclear power plants again we could finally compete. Renewable energy is not constant and has a storage problem

Compete with what? Is this more American shadowboxing?

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#524

Post by rsynnott »

danw1979 wrote: post #56
globular-toast wrote: post #53

> Heidu Mountain Scenic Area Not so scenic any more... I get it, electricity good, but man are we destroying places just to get this stuff. In the UK I reckon within my lifetime it won't be possible to go to the sea any more. I mean, the sea how it used to be, without wind turbines in it. Fossil fuels gave us too much. If only we could figure out how to want less.

My local beaches on the Yorkshire coast have some of the biggest wind farms in the world. We’re never going to reduce energy consumption. It’s a balance between gas and wind here, just pick how many wind turbines you want, and burn gas to fill in the gaps. Your ruined horizon is my safer future for my kids. I like seeing them there. I wish there were more.

> We’re never going to reduce energy consumption.

I mean, I think on an infinite timescale we probably will. A middle-class lifestyle today requires less energy than 20 years ago, simply because things have gotten more efficient (if you buy a fridge or a washing machine or a central heating system or a lightbulb today, it's using significantly less energy to do the same thing). But not _soon_. And part of the shift is very much from non-electric to electric power usage (gas heating -> heat pumps, petrol cars -> electric cars, diesel trains -> electric trains, etc etc). Energy use per capita will peak (may already have peaked) _long_ before electricity use per capita.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#525

Post by eunos »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #192
noosphr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the people who understand the scale don't understand the purpose. The Chinese grid isn't renewable or non-renewable. It's built to keep the lights on for anything short of a thousand year catastrophe. Their 2060 plan has enough non intermittent base load that they can run the whole country off it for a decade. That half of your grid capacity is there 'just in case' is something no one in the west can wrap their…

People worship China for being "green focused". The reality is that they don't have a good source of fossil fuels, and energy independence is a core necessity.

Something something Black cat or white cat, doesnt matter as long as it catches mice.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#526

Post by rsynnott »

Lucasoato wrote: post #5

Why aren't we doing it in the rest of the world as well?

China's willing to provide lots of capital for this, which has sped it up, but this is generally happening at a slower pace in most developed countries (and many non-developed ones, for that matter). It's even happening in the US, despite ol' minihands actively trying to stop it.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#527

Post by rsynnott »

gregbot wrote: post #416
natmaka wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uranium requires mining and is recyclable at most once (solar panels components are way better). Recyclable wind turbines blades are appearing (RecyclableBlade, ZEBRA, PECAN...) and even existing ones (today, decommissioned blades are burned in cement plants, thus providing energy) may become so (check the 'CETEC initiative')

Uranium actually does not require mining. Most uranium is extracted using underground wells where water is pumped underground and the Uranium is extracted from the water. Also extracting Uranium from sea water (which would be basically unlimited) is close to being commercially viable and has received a lot of lab-scale research. Also, Uranium is only recyclable once with light water reactors. With breeder reactors (w…

> Most uranium is extracted using underground wells where water is pumped underground and the Uranium is extracted from the water.

... I mean that's mining?

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#528

Post by rsynnott »

margorczynski wrote: post #7

Wouldn't it be better to just go with nuclear? Isn't this a gigantic waste of space and overhead to maintain it? And how "renewable" are the materials used to produce these?

I mean if there's one thing China isn't short of, it is _space_. Monaco, say, might struggle to do this, but China is fine.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#529

Post by mlrtime »

zingar wrote: post #496
bertjk wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fracking. Before fracking people were worried about "peak oil", and being dependent on unfriendly governments for our basic energy needs. Then with fracking we realized we are actually sitting on huge available oil reserves, and peak oil quickly became a quaint outdated concept.

Not that it changes your point, but the other day I met a republican who said he doesn’t think climate change is a thing but peak oil, now that’s something to worry about. The longevity of this plus the “no anthropogenic climate change” nonsense is astounding. Armchair climate sceptics are happy to seriously stick to talking points that are so out of date that even the oil industry doesn’t use them anymore.

So you met a person, they told you their Party Affiliation, then went to tell you how it isn't "real".

Sorry I don't believe your paraphrasing of this person's real thoughts and ideas. I'm sure these people exist, but it doesn't mean anything. I could equally go find someone crazy saying the world is going to end this year.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#530

Post by [deleted] »

appointment wrote: post #49
motbus3 wrote: post #34

I know nothing about the topic. Although it seems a better alternative than coal or petrol, is it free of side effects for the nature? I wonder if the heat that would be spread around the atmosphere and back to space can actually gradually serve as a trap for heat? Does this question make any sense at all?

No it doesn't make sense. Every photon that hits the Earth is eventually either absorbed as heat, reflected back into space or both (eg. partially absorbed and partially re-emitted as lower energy photons.) There is no net global increase in heat from a wind turbine or solar panel. (There might be slight local shifts.) The only way this could change net heat if it significantly altered the reflectivity of the surface…

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