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Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

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Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#521

Post by Aurornis »

neom wrote: post #509

I know this sounds extreme but I get actually angry/frustrated and often just can't watch peoples TVs. I don't watch TV myself but if I go to someones house and they have the TV on and it's one of those "enhanced" TVs, it boils my blood. I went to film school, I have emmy's, I've watched hours long conversations about frame rates and dynamic range choices and so many aspects of the creative process that the TV then..…

> I don't watch TV myself but if I go to someones house and they have the TV on and it's one of those "enhanced" TVs, it boils my blood

Let people enjoy things. If you don’t even watch TV yourself, it shouldn’t bother you how other people enjoy their own TV. If someone enjoys frame interpolation for their private watching, so what?

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#522

Post by [deleted] »

dylan604 wrote: post #489
joquarky wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem is that the people mixing the audio already know what is being said: Top-down processing (or more specifically, top-down auditory perception) This refers to perception being driven by prior knowledge, expectations, and context rather than purely by sensory input. When you already know the dialog, your brain projects that knowledge onto the sound and experiences it as “clear.”

Look at any setup audio is being mixed on and tell me how many sound bars do you see there? How many flat panels with nothing more than the built in speakers being used? None. The speakers being used and the tricks the equipment do to make multichannel audio work with fewer speakers plays havoc on well mixed audio. Down mixing on consumer device is just never going to sound great

[deleted]

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#523

Post by knorker »

dontlaugh wrote: post #518
knorker wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing as the soap opera effect. What has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I'll take the Pepsi challenge on this any day. It looks horrible. > Good quality sets and makeup and cameras look good at 24 or 48 or 120 fps. Can you give an example of ANY movie that survives TV motion interpolation settings? Billion dollar movies by this definition don't have good quality s…

I agree with you that the interpolation isn’t ideal, I’m not praising it. It’s merely a necessity for me to not get headaches. It’s also much less noticeable on its lowest settings, which serve just to take the edge off panning shots. The “soap opera effect” is what people call video at higher than 24 fps in general, it has nothing to do with interpolation. The term has been used for decades before interpolation even…

> You seem to be confused on that point

Please stop repeatedly misrepresenting what I said. This is not reddit.

I have repeatedly said that this is about the interpolation, and that I'm NOT judging things actually filmed at higher framerates, as I don't have experience with that.

> Source video at 120 looks no worse than at 24, that’s all I’m saying.

Again, give me an example. An example that is not video games, because that is not "filmed".

You are asserting that there's no such thing as something that's trivially and consistently repeatable, so forgive me for not taking you at your word that a 120fps filmed movie is free of soap opera effect. Especially with your other lying.

So actually, please take your misrepresentations and ad hominems to reddit.

Edit: one thing that looks much better with motion interpolation is panning shots. But it's still not worth it.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#524

Post by tsss »

mnky9800n wrote: post #282
01100011 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just said to a friend that the season 5 writing is so bad that I think AI would have done a better job. I hope someone tries that out once we get the final episode: Give an LLM the scripts for the first 4 seasons, the outcome frome the finale, and let it have a go and drafting a better season 5. And no, I'm not talking about the gay thing. The writing is simply atrocious. Numerous plot holes, leaps of reasoning, an…

I wish there was more Holly and her character was developed more. She’s interesting in a world of nerds as a girl who likes girl things. Like it’s an interesting character moment when she sees the bandana and goes to find it because her fashion is important to her. And then they crammed in all this character development when she dumps on Max that she feels guilty for everything. Basically I think the main problem wit…

All of what you said is accurate, but the problems are unfixable at this point, for two reasons:

1. Millie Bobbie Brown, the actor of Eleven, is unfathomably stupid (watch any out-of-character interview with her) and the role has simply outgrown her acting abilities. They can't make Eleven do anything interesting because Millie can't act it.

2. Writers have introduced so many supporting characters and separate story lines that it is impossible to give any of them enough screen time for proper character development.

There are other major writing problems with the show, like the overreliance on cheap 80s culture references, but I think the main problem is with the characters. The writers simply don't understand what made the first season so good.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#525

Post by dontlaugh »

knorker wrote: post #523
dontlaugh wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that the interpolation isn’t ideal, I’m not praising it. It’s merely a necessity for me to not get headaches. It’s also much less noticeable on its lowest settings, which serve just to take the edge off panning shots. The “soap opera effect” is what people call video at higher than 24 fps in general, it has nothing to do with interpolation. The term has been used for decades before interpolation even…

> You seem to be confused on that point Please stop repeatedly misrepresenting what I said. This is not reddit. I have repeatedly said that this is about the interpolation, and that I'm NOT judging things actually filmed at higher framerates, as I don't have experience with that. > Source video at 120 looks no worse than at 24, that’s all I’m saying. Again, give me an example. An example that is not video games, beca…

There is plenty of 50/60 and even 120 footage out there, some is even popular. I’m sure you can find it yourself.

I don’t see what I lied about or what Reddit has to do with anything. I will definitely stop replying to someone so needlessly aggressive.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#526

Post by nickthegreek »

dontlaugh wrote: post #472
jamesnorden wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true, everybody else is wrong and you're right.

Getting headaches from low frame rate is rare, I guess. I only know a few others with this problem. But preferring high frame rate is common, as evidenced by games and the many people who use TV interpolation features.

There is no evidence that people prefer high frame rate movies. Motion interpolation on TVs is set on by default, not a conscious choice the end user is making.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#527

Post by nickthegreek »

dontlaugh wrote: post #518
knorker wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no such thing as the soap opera effect. What has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. I'll take the Pepsi challenge on this any day. It looks horrible. > Good quality sets and makeup and cameras look good at 24 or 48 or 120 fps. Can you give an example of ANY movie that survives TV motion interpolation settings? Billion dollar movies by this definition don't have good quality s…

I agree with you that the interpolation isn’t ideal, I’m not praising it. It’s merely a necessity for me to not get headaches. It’s also much less noticeable on its lowest settings, which serve just to take the edge off panning shots. The “soap opera effect” is what people call video at higher than 24 fps in general, it has nothing to do with interpolation. The term has been used for decades before interpolation even…

You have never seen a movie at 120fps. Gemini Man exists at 60fps and that is as close as you are going to get. That blu-ray is controversial due to that fps. I thought it was neat, but it 100% looks and feels different than other movies.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#528

Post by neom »

Aurornis wrote: post #521
neom wrote: post #509

I know this sounds extreme but I get actually angry/frustrated and often just can't watch peoples TVs. I don't watch TV myself but if I go to someones house and they have the TV on and it's one of those "enhanced" TVs, it boils my blood. I went to film school, I have emmy's, I've watched hours long conversations about frame rates and dynamic range choices and so many aspects of the creative process that the TV then..…

> I don't watch TV myself but if I go to someones house and they have the TV on and it's one of those "enhanced" TVs, it boils my blood Let people enjoy things. If you don’t even watch TV yourself, it shouldn’t bother you how other people enjoy their own TV. If someone enjoys frame interpolation for their private watching, so what?

You're right. I've thought that before and made, I guess brief, peace with it...And frankly, it's TV so who cares? All my objections and frustrations are around how it should be enjoyed and how the creative process and artists should be respected all my interpretations of how I think it should be - ofc a recipe for frustration. So you're right: at the end of the day, who cares, if people enjoy the show, they enjoy the show... thanks for reminding me. :)

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#529

Post by dylan604 »

jrmg wrote: post #511
dylan604 wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Audio has become a WTF situation for me. I grew up with speakers that had a driver for low ends some where in the 8"-12", a driver for the mids typically in the 4"-6", and then a third for the highs in various forms of a tweeter. These were all internally crossed over so that only a single cable was necessary. Now, we have "satellite" speakers that are smaller than the tweeter and are touted as being all that's neces…

Bit of a tangent, but another WTF for me has been the mainstream return of mono audio for music (HomePods, Echos, many Bluetooth speakers etc.), after decades of everything being at least stereo.

Ugh, mono. Phasing is an effect that is used quite a bit, and when things are 180° out of phase and mixed to mono, oops, no more audio. Of course, my favorite use of 180° phasing was Dolby ProLogic to send that to the mono rear speakers. It was always fun listening to music that was not mixed for ProLogic but used 180° phasing as an effect in ProLogic decoding enabled. Random things would play from the rear speakers.

Re: Stranger Things creator says turn off “garbage” settings

#530

Post by acuozzo »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #318
pupppet wrote: post #66

The fact that I have to turn on closed captioning to understand anything tells me these producers have no idea what we want and shouldn’t be telling us what settings to use.

Apple TV (the box) has an Enhance Dialogue option built-in. Even that plus a pair of Apple-native HomePods on full volume didn’t help me hear wtf was going on in parts of Pirates of the Caribbean (2003) on Disney. If two of the biggest companies on the planet can’t get this right, I don’t know who can.

"Reduce Loud Sounds" does dynamic range compression. If you pair this with "Enhance Dialogue" you'll probably have an easier time making out what is said.
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