Live data from Hacker News

Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

theregister.com

521–530 of 641 posts

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The methods for influencing results within an organization exist on a spectrum, and failing to adequately utilize the breadth of that spectrum is always counter-productive.

If you want to measure the language used by the productivity of the desired outcome. I'd encourage you to survey the ratio of comments talking about the problems with github's very broken CI and UX, with how many people expressed an objection to the language and words used in the announcement. Failure to convey ideas with tact and respect, is demonstrably more counter productive. I assume you'll choose to dismiss tho…

Why do you consider that a useful metric? Hit dogs holler, after all.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does intellectual work imply that people doing poor work need to be treated like fragile little birds?

Can you only provide clear and direct feedback on poor work by insulting people?

No but I won’t rule it out for the incorrigible

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maintainers don't want to loose their stars ??? Seriously? > All these things are powerful indicators of quality Not in my experience....

Why are you as surprised? People don't just share their stargazing plots "for fun", but because it has meaning for them.

In my 17 years of having a GitHub account I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “stargazing plot”. Have you got an example of one?

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to measure the language used by the productivity of the desired outcome. I'd encourage you to survey the ratio of comments talking about the problems with github's very broken CI and UX, with how many people expressed an objection to the language and words used in the announcement. Failure to convey ideas with tact and respect, is demonstrably more counter productive. I assume you'll choose to dismiss tho…

Why do you consider that a useful metric? Hit dogs holler, after all.

> Why do you consider that a useful metric? Hit dogs holler, after all.

you do...

> The methods for influencing results within an organization exist on a spectrum, and failing to adequately utilize the breadth of that spectrum is always counter-productive.

Or did you have a different expectation for result in mind? The one you thought would be counter-productive without insults.

My assumption was that ark wanted to put support behind codeberg, and encourage others to take a critical look at how bad github has become, and to consider other options. Not rally additional support and defense of github's actions.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#525
post #19

I have sympathy for some of the GitHub complaints. otoh just went to try to signup for Codeberg and it's down ... 95% uptime over the last 2 weeks? https://status.codeberg.org/status/codeberg

As a customer of GitHub actions, anecdotally feels like Github experiences issues frequently enough to make this not a problem.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#526

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the…

Honestly, why do so many people, especially in the western hemisphere, act so shocked when somebody speaks their mind openly?

To me this kind of communication says it comes from a real person who has real experiences, not the marketing department, and is understandably angry at the people who make his life worse. And it's natural to insult those people. Insults are a signal, not noise. They signal something is wrong and people should pay attention to it.

I hear criticisms about being unprofessional and the like. So what? I don't wanna live in a world where everything everyone says is supposed to be filtered to match some arbitrary restrictions made up be people who more often than not can't do the work themselves.

Almost all of the actually competent people I personally know speak like this.

They can't stand those dragging us down through incompetence. They get angry when something that should work doesn't. They are driven by quality and will not be silent when it's lacking. If somebody fucked up, they will tell them they fucked up and have to fix it.

And I much prefer that approach.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#527
post #91
post #61

One thing that's really nice about codeberg is how fast the pages load. Browsing GitHub often feels very sluggish. Obviously there's a difference in scale there, but I hope codeberg can keep being fast.

That is surprising. It is the opposite for me. $ time curl -L 'https://codeberg.org/' real 0m3.063s user 0m0.060s sys 0m0.044s $ time curl -L 'https://github.com/' real 0m1.357s user 0m0.077s sys 0m0.096s

Try changing tabs when reviewing a PR. 5-10 seconds on basic PRs often

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#528

The edit history of the announcement is quite a ride: > [2025-11-27T02:10:07Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress [1] > [2025-11-27T14:04:47Z] it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the…

Anger is a mind killer. Build software out of love. Love for engineering, innovation, creation, and love of working with people who feel the same way.

Anger contributed directly to the start of the free software movement:

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/rms-nyu-2001-transcript.txt

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#529

To be fair this has more to do with Github Actions than Github, which from the beginning was never really going to rival any professional solution. The people at Zig should use proper CI tools and not something that a big service provider is offering as an afterthought.

What is wrong with GitHub Actions other than the outages? I've never hit a issue myself.

Geez, where to start.

I mean, … the outages are a big part of it. But those outages also extending to taking out my own hardware (e.g., through bugs like the above consuming resources on my own compute) is just double the pain.

But as a product, it's just bad? Riddled with bugs? In no particular order:

* Artifact APIs will return garbage results during a run. Note that the APIs are separate from the GHA actions for interacting with artifacts, and the latter uses undocumented APIs, presumably b/c the documented APIs are buggy AF.

* needs.… will just return junk data, if you typo.

* Builds of actions are not cached, making them rather slow. Many GH official actions hack around this by pointing the tag/branch (e.g., @v4) at a pre-built artifact.

* The pricing is high, compared to other offerings.

* The interface is just FUBAR: e.g., stdin is a pipe, which will wreak havoc on some commands that change their behavior when piped to. stdout & stderr are pipes, which although GHA ostensibly supports colored output, this basically renders it useless.

* Jobs, steps, actions are conceptual mud. There's a few ideas, like "execute this thing" in there, but its all jumbled up/duplicated. Container settings are configured per-job, so if you want to run some steps in one container, and some in another, but in the same job, you're just going to be left out to dry.

* Secrets are hard to manage, and even harder to not leak.

* The expression language has all sorts of corners, like coerced types and functions with parse-time side-effects!.

That's just a few of the bugs I've encountered.

Re: Zig quits GitHub, says Microsoft's AI obsession has ruined the service

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider that a useful metric? Hit dogs holler, after all.

> Why do you consider that a useful metric? Hit dogs holler, after all. you do... > The methods for influencing results within an organization exist on a spectrum, and failing to adequately utilize the breadth of that spectrum is always counter-productive. Or did you have a different expectation for result in mind? The one you thought would be counter-productive without insults. My assumption was that ark wanted to p…

I do about what?

I haven’t actually used harsh language with anyone so I’m not sure what your point is. I have been on HN long enough to know that expressions of strong negative emotion are punished here. That says absolutely nothing about the effectiveness of different methods of influence within an organization.

I think if people are rallying to defend GitHub due to some language that ruffled their feathers and not objective technical merit then they have completely lost the plot as engineers.

As far as Andrew’s goals, I think he has been pretty successful within the framework of the attention economy.

Post reply on HN