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Valve is about to win the console generation

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Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#521

Post by bryanlarsen »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #479
bryanlarsen wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every console that sold over a hundred million consoles had over a decade of solid sales. Those seven consoles significantly outnumber the 50 consoles that didn't. Even the PS3 didn't sell 100 million units. Relative flops like the xbox one or the wii U are insignificant fractions of console sales.

So, 4 consoles? Yes, I'm aware on how consoles are monetized. They take a loss in the first few years and make up for that with software sales, which they take a 30% cut on. I'm not dispelling if the model isn't profitable, I'm simply stating that the hardware is historically sold at razor thin margins early on, if not outright a loss (until this generation)

> So, 4 consoles?

as I said, 7 consoles.

> They take a loss in the first few years and make up for that with software sales, which they take a 30% cut on.

Some consoles took a loss in the first 1-2 years.

> until this generation

Nope. The early generations didn't sell at a loss. Atari 2600, NES, et cetera weren't. That practice started with PS1 / XBox and ended with PS4/XBone.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#522

Post by andrekandre »

array_key_first wrote: post #480
wmeredith wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for calling this out. As a long time console gamer, I hadn't noticed this creeping bloat until I started playing games with my young children. My son begged for a new Madden game after playing it at his friend's house. When we got the game, it probably took us an hour of fucking around with downloads and accounts. Off the top of my head, I had to set up a parents EA account and kids account, set permissions…

I had this experience playing couch co-op call of duty a few years ago. I had to make a fucking account . It's not even my console. Nintendo has wavered a tad, but they're the closet to the original experience. You pop in a thingy, hook up another controller, or two, or three, and you're off. It just works, maybe you can input a name for your guy, maybe not, maybe you just always play Waluigi so everyone knows who yo…

  > I had to make a fucking account.
ea games are like this, same for ubisoft... in my case i just disconnect my switch 2 from wifi and they don't bother about it (much anyways).

i wish console makers would be a bit more strict with policies like this cause as you indicate, it hurts whole usecase of consoles in the first place

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#523

Post by johnnyanmac »

somenameforme wrote: post #491
johnnyanmac wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaming tends to adjust to consors, and we're nearing 6 years of gen 9 consoles. expect any "entry level gaming" computer to either be portable or competitive with the $600 price point I can grab at any major retailer. Otherwise, sure. I can build a potato for $300 and i will probably enjoy Silksong just fine. But at that point why not buy a non-gaming laptop?

The $400 system linked above can run modern games in 4k/120FPS. And that was far from some search for the most efficient price:performance build, it was just the first thing that came up on a quick search. If one is willing to do things like buy a refurbished hardware and assume you already have an OS, you could easily bring that down to $300 and maybe even start pushing towards $200. Gaming has just gotten so absurd…

Older games at medium settings, or shooters at low settings sure. If that's your compromise for frames then a relative potato can still play it. I'm not sure I call that "modern" in the same way something God of War Ragnarok is "modern".

>Though that is one area where many Japanese studios are still lagging behind the rest.

Its a different model. They aren't trying to sell millions of copies to report engagement and sales, so they want to lock in the smaller audience they have and get as much out of that. Nintendo style. That's why you'll see the larger public studios like Square Enix and Capcom doing western style, generous sales so their sales calls can be "we sold 20% more YoY from new releases". Koei Tecmo, not so much. And Sega seems to straddle the line depending on the franchise.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#524

Post by johnnyanmac »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #521
johnnyanmac wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, 4 consoles? Yes, I'm aware on how consoles are monetized. They take a loss in the first few years and make up for that with software sales, which they take a 30% cut on. I'm not dispelling if the model isn't profitable, I'm simply stating that the hardware is historically sold at razor thin margins early on, if not outright a loss (until this generation)

> So, 4 consoles? as I said, 7 consoles. > They take a loss in the first few years and make up for that with software sales, which they take a 30% cut on. Some consoles took a loss in the first 1-2 years. > until this generation Nope. The early generations didn't sell at a loss. Atari 2600, NES, et cetera weren't. That practice started with PS1 / XBox and ended with PS4/XBone.

>as I said, 7 consoles.

4 consoles 2 handhelds, and a hybrid (switch). I have no clue if the gameboy and DS were actually sold at a loss. These were pre-smartphone devices sold more like toys, so I can see them being manufactured for very cheaply in a pre-smartphone era with minimal peripheral requirements.

> That practice started with PS1 / XBox and ended with PS4/XBone.

Okay, fair enough. Atari and NES were very expensive for their time. Nintendo had a few generations to itself to revive the industry and I'm thankful, but I'm also glad their blunder ended up creating competiton in the market.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#525

Post by Arrath »

Hikikomori wrote: post #501
array_key_first wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because there's no moderation and they don't get banned. If they got banned, they wouldn't cheat.

They do get banned, what are you even talking about?

If anything the Tarkov ban treadmill is a way to drive sales. Even if some of them get disputed as fraudulent due to stolen card numbers, BSG may still come out ahead.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#526

Post by satvikpendem »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #46

Valve certainly won't win it, but they're bringing the heat where it wasn't before. SteamOS is the important part here - if it is proven to be a good console experience (which the deck has basically proven already) then licensing of the OS to other manufacturers will put a lot of pressure on integrated h/w s/w manufacturers. Unlike the handheld format, the tvbox console is fairly easy to manufacture and is tolerant o…

Ah, imagine, every game on PC, on one unified platform (yet with many stores of course).

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#527

Post by DANmode »

brookst wrote: post #374
Zhyl wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried it without a flagship and without a large library of compatible games. They now have a flagship first party Steam Machine and Proton to run games. They are also working with partners to create 3rd party Steam OS handhelds. If steam machines sell well, we will likely see supported 3rd party offerings.

Yes. It’s the Pixel / Surface / strategy: show there is a market for premium, flagship reference devices and let those guide the second tier manufacturers. You don’t even have to be the #1 vendor, the reference implementation does a lot of good for the ecosystem.

You don’t even have to be the #5 vendor!

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#528

Post by SirMaster »

Arainach wrote: post #411
butlike wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risking pedantry here, but there are some windows-only games that could be considered PC exclusive (and by extension, steam machine exclusive)

None at the AAA-tier which sell consoles.

DotA isn't AAA tier? It's the #2 game by a big margin on Steam. And also League of Legends is just as big. How are these not AAA tier games?

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#529

Post by Hikikomori »

Arrath wrote: post #525
Hikikomori wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do get banned, what are you even talking about?

If anything the Tarkov ban treadmill is a way to drive sales. Even if some of them get disputed as fraudulent due to stolen card numbers, BSG may still come out ahead.

That's a bad conspiracy. A few k sales per month doesn't make sense for this , especially when some are fraudulent or hacked.

Re: Valve is about to win the console generation

#530

Post by tombert »

Fnoord wrote: post #346
tombert wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main game console right now is one of those little gaming boxes you can buy on Amazon for about $400, where I have installed NixOS + Jovian to get the "SteamOS" interface. I really like it. It really does feel like a "game console"; usually when I've made my own console using Linux, it always feels kind of janky. For example, RetroPie on the Raspberry Pi is pretty cool, but it doesn't feel like a proper commercial…

That sounds interesting because with NixOS it should be very easy to move your config to the next thing, and honestly I prefer NixOS over Arch. What I wanted to ask you: have you converted the device into a STB as well or is that still standalone?

I'm afraid I don't know what an STB is.
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