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.NET 10

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: .NET 10

#521

Post by delaconcha »

zamalek wrote: post #386
delaconcha wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just install the .NET SDK, and you’re ready to go. > Nuget is complete and utter garbage. You still have to resort to all forms of unreliable hacks in order to redirect it to a locally clone How so, you can use a nuget.config in your project and use your local packages fairly easy, seems in part with npm and the likes.

"Just" is an incredibly obnoxious word when used in the way that you have. > Just install Not on Debian? Have fun with that. You'll also need the Azure SDK. And what about openssl-dev? Oh no, you installed dotnet on Windows instead of within WSL? Start again. No, you don't "just install" the SDK. There is a lot that the IDEs set up for you. > Local nuget.config I don't see how adding a nuget config improves anything.…

In my experience installing the .NET SDK is fairly simple in any platform, well documented and supported.

Nuget.config allows to configure your local feeds, this implies you have a local feed with the required packages.

Another option is to push the local build packages to you local NuGet cache.

Re: .NET 10

#523

Post by mycall »

colechristensen wrote: post #451
whizzter wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when people were selling COM objects in Dr Dobbs journal ads for Visual Basic in the 90s? I think it's the same culture (and partially people) that has been bought over to the .NET world via VB.NET as it was always touted as the stepping stone. Nothing has ever forced anyone to depend on commercial libraries, there has been some upsets as people has closed-source previously popular opensource libraries. But…

In the world of LLMs the new version of "open source" is LLM makers using prompts which are then used in training leaking your code into the next version of the model therefore distributing your code for "free" minus your payments to the LLM maker. It's probably a good thing because far from your "secret sauce" so much programming work is companies doing the same very boring things over and over connecting pipes toge…

Programming is just a means to a way and a waste of time if it can be automated. Making useful things is all that matters.

Re: .NET 10

#524

Post by mycall »

to11mtm wrote: post #413
ourmandave wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I love .NET and have used it from it's rollout back in 2002. I'm just fondly remembering the ASP.NET MVC churn or more recently, Azure API whiplash.

I get you actually. MVC churn was real, EF Churn was real, heck NETCORE itself was a (at least warned about) churn, 3.1->6.0 was minor but still definitely a thing [0]. [0] - Now that I'm thinking it out loud, maybe that's why they changed the branding from .NET CORE to just .NET; The churn was more or less 'done'...

I'm only now deprecating a netcore 2.2 API that used a 4.8 framework domain/repository layer. At the time it seems like a good idea and it received automatic security patches.

Re: .NET 10

#525

Post by masfoobar »

aryonoco wrote: post #235
masfoobar wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "confusing" aspect with C#, being part of the Microsoft eco-system, is that there are many smaller companies (and startups) that may have concern paying for such tools. To the uneducated, C# is linked to Visual Studio.. the IDE.. and the Community edition if free as long as you are a student, open-source, and individuals. Professional and Enterprise are paid. (Yes - there is Visual Studio Code) Again, I a…

What are you talking about C# being tied to Visual Studio? This is 2025 not 1995. I do my hobby .NET development in Zed and my serious work in Rider. .NET is open source and MIT licences. I do most of my development on a ARM MacBook Pro, or using my workstation which runs Fedora. We deploy our code on kubernetes clusters usually on AWS. All of the tooling, compiler, libraries etc are open source and cross platform an…

You know there are people.. programmers.. who are not C# developers... and likely refuse C# because of various reasons.. right? It can be based on the fact its Microsoft. My comment is based on startups and, from my experience, people like go all in on C# because decisions have been made to go all-in Microsoft.

C# has come a long way in the last 10 years. This much is clear, providing better support outside of the Windows ecosystem. However, many outside of the Windows/Microsoft ways are likely to be using languages like Go.

> What are you talking about C# being tied to Visual Studio? This is 2025 not 1995.

There was no C# in 1995. (See it's easy attacking a sentence)

Re: .NET 10

#526

Post by mycall »

mhfu wrote: post #103
netdevphoenix wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People love to talk about the right tool for the job, it's all BS This sounds very close minded to me. It is certainly true that there exist tasks if not subdomains where some ecosystems are better than others. Using a hammer for everything might work for you if all your problems are nails. But that doesn't mean that all problems out there are nails

If your organization has one API written in Node, another in Java and third in Python without any reason, then yes, all the problems are nails. And sadly, I've seen this a lot.

I've have limited success using codex to do code conversions for multiple projects into one standard team language. I suspect this will only improve and is how this "problem" gets solved soon'ish.

Re: .NET 10

#527

Post by mycall »

masfoobar wrote: post #525
aryonoco wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about C# being tied to Visual Studio? This is 2025 not 1995. I do my hobby .NET development in Zed and my serious work in Rider. .NET is open source and MIT licences. I do most of my development on a ARM MacBook Pro, or using my workstation which runs Fedora. We deploy our code on kubernetes clusters usually on AWS. All of the tooling, compiler, libraries etc are open source and cross platform an…

You know there are people.. programmers.. who are not C# developers... and likely refuse C# because of various reasons.. right? It can be based on the fact its Microsoft. My comment is based on startups and, from my experience, people like go all in on C# because decisions have been made to go all-in Microsoft. C# has come a long way in the last 10 years. This much is clear, providing better support outside of the Wi…

> There was no C# in 1995

Delphi was the hit story then.

Re: .NET 10

#528

Post by htgb »

snarfy wrote: post #471
htgb wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you referring to the change tracker? FYI you can have it skip tracking as the default (or per query), but when you actually want to make changes you better opt in with `.AsTracking()`. Anyway, I've used EF at work for about a decade and I'm happy with it. I surely have blind spots since I haven't used other ORMs in that time, but some things I like are: - Convenient definition of schema. - Nice handling of migrat…

Dapper can be a better fit depending on the scenario. It's dumb objects. You fill them yourself with actual SQL statements. There is no change tracker. You are the change tracker. The main issue with EF is ultimately there is an expression builder that maps linq expressions to sql. This mostly works, until it doesn't, or it does but has strange generated sql and performance. If all you are doing is CRUD or CRUD adjac…

Fair enough. We use Dapper for a handful of performance-critical queries. But I wouldn't want to use it for the 99% where EF works well. Just like I wouldn't want to hand-roll assembly more than where it's really needed.

And it's not just about performance. LINQ plays well with the same static analysis tools as the rest of C#. You know, type checking, refactoring & co.

Re: .NET 10

#529

Post by mycall »

orphea wrote: post #374
parliament32 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Create a hello world dotnet container, then do the same in a modern language. Then compare image size and resource consumption. Then imagine you're running tens of thousands of containers in a proper SaaS microservices model, and it'll make sense :)

> Create a hello world dotnet container The container image is 10.9 MiB. The binary is 1.2 MiB.

While that is small for a container and modern binary, I recall C hello worlds being 17KiB -- if only AOT/Spans/interop be used more to drive down those filesizes further.

Re: .NET 10

#530

Post by jcmontx »

jerhewet wrote: post #437
jcmontx wrote: post #136

I've worked with .NET for over 10 years and we built our startup on top of it. Here are my thoughts: Pros: * Stability * Very decent standard library * Good balance between productivity and robustness * Great package management * Extremely easy to upgrade, so essentially free goodies (performance) every year or so Cons: * Very MSFT dominated (obviously) * Subpar tooling outside of Windows (I'm looking at you C# Dev K…

> C# has way to many features, it feels bloated Could not agree more. Too many -- WAY too many -- "features" from Javascript and functional languages have been jammed into C#, and the language has suffered for it. Every time I see "var blah" in C# code I cringe at how lazy you must be to not use strong typing when declaring a variable. Same goes for "astink / await". If you need asynchronous multi-threaded code, use…

> "astink / await"

If you take it in the context of the industry, I think async/await is the more imperative friendly option. It let's you write code sequentially without callbacks. And the performance gains are definitely worth it. I'll have to respectfully disagree

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